[tkahn6]

> The whole Java is too verbose argument is starting to sound like a broken record. With an IDE and tools like ProjectLombok around, you don't need to type much more than most other languages.

The fact that you need an IDE to handle all the boilerplate for you should indicate the language is too verbose. In fact I feel like that's what it means for a language to be too verbose.

You should read this: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/12/codes-worst-enemy.ht...

[latchkey]

That is like saying a carpenter doesn't need a hammer. An IDE is just a tool for doing your job. You don't actually need an IDE to write Java, but it sure makes it a lot easier to build a house.

[tkahn6]

> You don't actually need an IDE to write Java

Correct. You don't actually need an IDE to write Java but unless you have one you're going to be writing a lot of boilerplate by hand. That is the point I am making. The language is verbose whether or not you have an IDE. The IDE simply helps you manage that verbosity.