[myshpa]

Not everybody eating plant-based is trying to mimick a carnivore diet.

But nobody likes to eat baked vegetables and porridge all the time. Just because we have meats, milks and cheeses, it does not mean we're after the taste. We're after variety in taste and structure. We also have favorite foods from our time not being vegans, and recreating them in plant-based version is satisfying. And no, it does not taste 100% like the "real" thing. If it would, some (I) would not eat it.

And plant-based meat does not have to be frankenfood [1] [2]. Take some plant-based protein (wheat, peas, what have you), marinate it in some vegetable broth and soya sauce, maybe color it with beet root, and you've got perfectly healthy meat replacement [3].

[1] https://www.peta.org/living/food/meat-contamination/ - Meat Contamination [2] https://sogoodsoyou.com/6-lessons-eating-plant-based-dr-greg... - The best way to minimize your exposure to industrial toxins may be to eat as low as possible on the food chain, a plant-based diet”. Pollutants that find their way into the soil will eventually work their way up the food chain. When you eat meat from an animal, you must consider the thousands of pounds of (potentially contaminated) plants it consumed before being slaughtered. Avoid these pollutants entirely by eating lower on the food chain [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY2YN6krVtk - Washed Flour Seitan Recipe from Start to Finish

[nikolay]

I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and about a third of the year, we're vegan. Even after giving enough time for enzymatic adaptation and soaking beans the proper way and changing the water at least 3 times (imagine the footprint!), and following all the proper steps, I still cannot digest well beans and lentils, and other plant foods without significant discomfort. If I don't feel well after eating plant foods, I cannot believe it's good for my body! The constant bloating and pain do not occur when I am on the omnivore diet and when those foods are not the main course but are eaten in small quantities. So, maybe for some people, given the specifics of their ancestry and adaptation, the vegan diet is good, but it's not for me. I cannot imagine having no quality dairy in my life (I don't eat surrogates and stress on quantity, not quality), and I don't have issues with gluten like others do, but I don't overeat carbs. I don't feel nutritionally satisfied when eating large amounts of pasta or rice, and I cannot imagine how these carb-heavy foods are better for the environment than traditionally raised cattle. The moral aspect of eating meat is complex: what's better - to raise farm animals humanely and allow them to be alive or not allow them to ever exist? Even in nature, those animals would have been eaten by carnivores - I don't see myself eating a cat, but I do eat prey animals.

[myshpa]

Our diets are the culprit of your digestive problems, imho. It's not something you cannot change. Humans are slowly losing their ability to digest fiber, and the bloating & pain is there, because your digestive track is not accustomed to high-fiber foods.

Solution is not to avoid fiber, but to add it to your diet progressively. There is a plethora of health problems connected to the lack of fiber in one's diet. I've found that's best to start adding it after few days of water fast, when the "bad bacteria" is weakened.

I don't feel satistied after rice too (and don't eat almost no pasta), I think that fiber & some proteins are necessary for satiety when on plant-based diet.

> soaking beans the proper way and changing the water at least 3 times (imagine the footprint!)

"The amount of water used for meat production in just 35 hours could provide drinking water for everyone on earth for a year." [0]

> I cannot imagine how these carb-heavy foods are better for the environment

Plant based food are. There is enough evidence and scientific consensus.

> what's better - to raise farm animals humanely and allow them to be alive or not allow them to ever exist

We've stolen living space from wild animals and decreesed their diversity - 100 years ago humans and cattle were 2% of weight of the total biomass of land mammals. Now it's about 96%. [0] In other words, we've destroyed the natural habitat and countless animal species, with tens of thousands more threatened by extincion, and replaced them with farm animals, just for our food preferences. [1]

> Even in nature, those animals would have been eaten by carnivores - I don't see myself eating a cat, but I do eat prey animals.

Without us there would not be so many farm animals (obviously). The lion has no other option than to eat other animals. We've got plenty options ourselves, just the will and/or knowledge is missing.

[0] https://www.theworldcounts.com/challenges/consumption/foods-... - Meat production water usage [1] https://xkcd.com/1338/ - Land mammals [2] https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets [3] https://ourworldindata.org/meat-production