[rdtsc]

An interesting factoid. There is no legal way for anyone to just come to US and make it their home country.

Say someone from Africa or South America. They can't simply save enough money, get on a plane, land at JFK and then after 10 years or whatever time become citizens. They would have to be persecuted in a terrible way before being granted asylum, have to marry a US citizen, find a company that would hire them.

I think that is very interesting given that this country was founded on immigrants just hoping on the boat and coming here, either to build a better life or because things got terribly bad where they were.

I personally went through the whole process and it is a fucking mess. I knew how to deal with it, because I dealt with bureaucracy in the old country. I can sense an annoyed low level clerk's power trip coming on before they notice it. Such individual need special treatment. You never want to fall into anyone's cross-hairs, it seems like they would destroy you just because they can.

Also know someone who works for immigration. It is quite a dysfunctional entity. Very inefficient. Lots of internal mistakes, unpaid interns do the job searching through databases and picking people out for violations & deportation. Next time you know someone was picked out -- chances are some kid thought their last name sounded funny and it caught their attention.

[shin_lao]

If you invest at least $ 1,000,000 in a company, you can get a visa. This gets down to $ 500,000 for some areas. The investment must create or maintain at least 10 jobs.

It's the EB-5 visa.

[gnaritas]

In other word, as usual, there are special privileges for the rich; go figure.

[rbanffy]

I would prefer to read that as privileges for those who create jobs. It's not enough to be rich.

[gnaritas]

Every investor fancies himself a job creator.

[gyardley]

While this may be true, the EB-5 is reserved for those who create jobs - not simply 'invest'.

[mc32]

Many countries have this asset requirement -New Zeeland, for example, Canada. It's nothing new or extra-ordinary. It's sort of insurance against draining the state in the event one were to become non-productive.

[oldpatricka]

This seems pretty different from the Canadian asset requirement [1]. The Canadian asset requirement is meant to ensure that new (skilled worker) immigrants can support themselves (and it's on the order of $10 000. The immigrant keeps this money and can spend it however he likes.

Canada does have something similar to this visa though[2], but the investment is managed by the government.

1. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/funds.asp

2. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/investors/in...

[rdtsc]

This asset requirement is not for shopping at the mall and making sure you don't starve. It is to invest. This money has to be spent on investment and creating jobs in US.

[blahedo]

> There is no legal way for anyone to just come to US and make it their home country.

Are there countries where this is possible? This is a real question, I'm not snarking---is there some country X where I could just up and say, "I want to move to X" and just go there and make it my permanent residence? (I know that there are some countries that in practice don't enforce their requirements, but I thought all countries had them.)

[rrhm]

Every country has their requirements, and to a greater extent they enforce them. However, some countries make it downright impossible for a foreigner to become a resident or a citizen, while others make it exceedingly easy.

For instance, if you wanted to become a permanent resident or a citizen to the Dominican Republic, all you would have to do is get there (via sea or air), go through the motions, submit the paperwork and pay the taxes.

You would start by buying a US$10 tourist card, as a permit to enter the country, which will be approved unless you are obviously wanted by Interpol.

This will give you 60 days, during which you can apply for your provisional resident visa. For the resident visa you will need to provide, aside from the usual forms and tax payments, proof of solvency, defined as about 13k dollars in assets (cash and property) at the current exchange rate, and a letter of sponsorship from any good-faith Dominican citizen with in-country legal residence.

Within the first two months after this visa you can apply for a provisional residency card. About four months after the application, you receive your provisional residency card, which lasts a year. At about the year mark, it does not matter much if it happens before or after, you can apply for your permanent residency card. That last one lasts 3 years and is indefinitely renewable (as long as you do not commit a horrible crime).

After two years of uninterrupted legal residency in the country (i.e. at least six months and one day per year) you can apply for naturalization.

All the while, you are free to engage in productive business from day one. You would be taxed differently, on account of not being a citizen, but you would be allowed to work for a profit. If you happen to aquire assets in-country, there is leeway to have the sponsorship requirements waived.

Legal translations, medical examinations and notary public fees carry the burden of the cost of the process. Taxes will run you up less than $100 in total. The entire process is fairly inexpensive and could probably be done with less than $1000 dollars.

[galadriel]

Note that the landing with $10 requires that one has to be from developed world.

And there is also a pretty similar procedure to get green card in USA, the EB5 route.

[rdtsc]

There is a bit of difference between $10 and $1000000 but , <sarcasm>aside from that, it is the same</sarcasm>

[rdtsc]

I was under the impression that before people used to just get on a ship and sail to America. Land on Ellis Island, get processed and move on to build a new life in US. Isn't that true?

[hugh3]

Largely. Two things killed that off -- the jet age (meaning that travelling to another continent is now easy) and the greater connection of the third world to the first world.

Open borders for a rich country just aren't practical any more, if they want to remain a rich country. Like osmosis, open borders mean that people will flow from countries crappier than the US to the US until the US ceases to be less crappy than any other country.

[mbesto]

I have a Tier 1 in the UK (btw- it no longer exists) and basically allowed me to make the UK my home with no job here. (I have a job) The major prerequisites were basically that English was my mother tongue, I made a certain amount of money, and/or had an advanced degree. It's more or less a way of saying "Are you going to create jobs here?" turns out I am, but doesn't necessarily mean that anyone with the prereqs checked off has the same intentions. I could theoretically have moved here and become an independent contracter.

As I understand it, its much easier in many countries to be part of their "skilled worker" areas than the US. It usually takes working for a large corporation to get a H-1B visa.

As an American citizen I feel like I can move to any country in the world. I mean any country should want me to move to theirs right? /snark

[xtracto]

While I was studying in the UK I met several Latin Americans who told me were living there as good as they could until 10 years (I think, maybe less) have passed. It seems after you are there (in any way) for 10 years, you can somehow claim the residency.

The straight facts may be different, but that was the general idea of what I understood.

[dts]

The problem with this statement is what is meant by "just come" to the country. I personally don't think that any immigration process should cater to the serendipitous. It's a legal process and most modern countries have processes in place where if you say "I want to move to X" and start the legal process to move to X in your own country, then yes, you can go there and live there if you meet the given requirements. Are there any countries without any requirements for new immigrants (money in the bank, job offer, etc) so that anyone regardless of status can just come? That I don't know. In my experience the barriers are always money, time, patience, and background. Usually in that order.

[rdtsc]

> The problem with this statement is what is meant by "just come" to the country.

But it used to, and as I've mentioned in other posts here, that is what US propaganda is selling -- we are so good because we are a nation of immigrants and we like to tell stories about our grand-grand fathers jumping on the boat to America and so on.

So it is strange that America ended up with a draconian immigration process.

Not blaming Japan, or other countries, they never claimed to be "melting pots" or anything like at. So this is mainly a jab at the propaganda vs reality.

Look at it from another point -- globalization. It is an interesting word. It is presented as being cooperation between countries and companies. Very nice indeed, except that you'd think it also means opening borders more and letting globalization spreading down to the individual level. For example US companies flood the market in South America with cheap corn and chicken, killing off small farmers, but when those farmers want to jump across the border to find jobs picking lettuce in Alabama, they are called "illegal aliens", they are breaking the law you see. So while for some borders are opening (large corporation) for individuals borders and immigration are closing.

> That I don't know. In my experience the barriers are always money, time, patience, and background. Usually in that order.

Wait, but everyone's epic grand-grand-father that came to Ellis Island did have $1M to invest in a US business. And I don't really mind the time. 10 years? - sure! But can I do that in US? Just come and tell them, let me stay here for 10 years, then give me a passport.

[mc32]

As sovereign, countries can change their policies --as Western Europe did after WWII to attract a workforce to rebuild --and in the 70s once that workforce was no longer necessary.

Every country has a carrying capacity --the limits can be economic, resource-bound, land-bound, political, etc. Why would the US be any different?

The Statue of Liberty is a statue expressing an ideal albeit a bit troubling in that it assumes a world of poor huddled masses --but it's not a national policy.

[0x12]

That goes for lots of countries.

They want you to apply from the outside.

In Canada for instance that can get really funny, where applying from within Canada for a European is only possible by applying in the United States (Buffalo, for instance).

Within Canada there is no office that can deal with your application.

[rdtsc]

It is not an inside vs outside, it is that they have no legal way to simply apply and get accepted, just because you want to live here. And that is fascinating in light of this being a nation of immigrants.

You'd have to fit into one of the categories -- gifted, company wants to hire you, married a citizen, have lots of money & investing in US, ...

[megablast]

> An interesting factoid. There is no legal way for anyone to just come to US and make it their home country.

I am pretty sure this is exactly the same for every country. Not anyone can move to any other country, it has not been that way for a long time.

[huhtenberg]

> There is no legal way for anyone to just come to US and make it their home country.

Depends on what you exactly mean by home country, but there is an investor's visa - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa

[rdtsc]

Home country -- on track to be a citizen.

And even E-2 is not just anyone -- it is for rich people. Even the minimum amount quoted $50,000 is considered enormous by most of almost 7 billion people living in the world.

[huhtenberg]

It might be a substantial amount, but it is a legal way to live in the US. So your factoid while interesting is not exactly accurate.

Also, to put the $50K in perspective - Canadian permanent resident visa has a requirement of showing $10K in available funds, and there is a metric ton of such visas getting granted every year. $50K is not far off.

[rdtsc]

So is marrying a citizen or getting an H-1. They are legal. Read my comment, I mean someone from any part of the world, just getting enough money for a plane ticket, getting on a plane or boat, landing in NY and eventually becoming a citizen of US. No need to marry anyone, getting any company to sponsor you, no "gifted" abilities, no need for $50K, no need to have been raped and mutilated by militias and so on. That was my point. Sorry for not being clear enough.

(also $50K is not for personal expenses, this money have to be proven to be used in US economy as a direct investment. Not just showing that you have $50K to spend on shopping at the mall).

[mmatants]

I suppose the expectation is that unless you are escaping imminent danger (refugee status) or joining a loved one (marriage), your decision to change your home is a calculated move - and the gov't gives a similarly calculated go-ahead. In other words, you are describing a niche of "I am OK now, and would like to join you", and the government responds with "we are OK now, so what will you bring along?".

Not making a judgment about the ethical conclusions of that, though.

[huhtenberg]

Ok, got it. In that case, and with a possible exception of EU zone, there are no countries that allow doing what you described. For example, being a citizen of Canada I can travel almost everywhere w/o visas, but I cannot just fly to Italy or Mongolia or Japan and get settled to live and work. Nor would I be able to get a work-enabling visa easily. In other words the USA is not an exception, there is nothing unique about their free settlement restrictions.

[rdtsc]

The difference, is that US (and Canada I guess), unlike many other countries was founded on immigration and prides itself with that fact ("melting pot, yada yada.."). However it ended up as a country with one of the most complicated and difficult immigration systems in the world.

[krookoo]

What happens in the EU zone?

[harichinnan]

Just one condition. H1B's would be given out only in areas where there's a skill shortage in US. IT jobs are always on the list and that's why H1B's are easily given out for IT. However for other industries, say agriculture, or most factory work, it's impossible to take the H1B route.

[gujk]

That is exactly what the "oid" in "factoid" means, by the way.

fact : factoid :: human : humanoid

[rdtsc]

You are right. I said it because I am not an immigration specialist (apart from having navigated the system myself and know people who for for it). So it is possible that I am wrong. I did not go and research the laws in depth before posting. It is just what I heard from others.

[ebaysucks]

$50K is peanuts for a business that is growing. It's the cost of employing an engineer for 4 months.

Honestly if a business isn't planning on investing $50K, why would the US want it?

Start your internet business outside the US, than apply for E-2 telling you want to move your business to Silicon Valley.

Also hire an immigration lawyer. You are hiring engineers to hack code, you hire lawyers to hack the law.

I'm a European and I intent to do exactly this.

[mdda]

The E-2 also involves a catch-22 : To show that you're serious about building a business, they require you to show that you have (for instance) a commercial rental lined up. Other things (such as potential employees, letters of intent, bank accounts, LLC incorporation and other strong indications that the business will be viable) are also important.

However, prior to getting the visa, you can't do business in the USA : So it's pretty tough to get all this done and stay strictly within the law (a B-2 visa should be for a business outside the States, for instance).

What's more, when it comes to renew the E-2, you are forced to have an interview (after submitting a whole lot of documentation) in the Embassy in your home nation : And the Embassies won't give any firm guidelines about the visa turn-around period, so that you're left in limbo (away from the US) until the magic envelope with your visa'd Passport inside drops through the letterbox.

FWIW, once at the Embassy, the official there was pretty understanding of the hustle required of an entrepreneur, and was pretty friendly once they saw that the reality matched the intent of the visa. The documentation exists mainly for rejection purposes, IMHO.

[gujk]

Is that surprising or peculiar to the USA? Is it easy to become a citizen of Japan, or Germany? It is a general pattern that highly desirable destinations to live eventually fill up (by some metric chosen by the insiders) and close borders or are made undesirable.

[rdtsc]

Germany and Japan don't spew propaganda about them being built by immigrants or being a melting pot or something like that. US is, while at the same time having draconian immigration policies. I think that disconnect is interesting.