[AnimalMuppet]

See, the problem is that we think and act like we're in a post-truth world, but we're not. Reality is out there. Certain statements correspond more closely with the reality that exists, and others less. Reality doesn't go away when you don't believe it, when it's outside your filter bubble, when it's censored by all the big social media outfits. And building a society that is based on something contrary to reality is... let's call it "probably unstable".

[rectang]

In a post-truth world, actual reality is out there, but parties can't come to an agreement about what that reality is. Reality exists, but truth does not.

> And building a society that is based on something contrary to reality is... let's call it "probably unstable".

It doesn't matter if it's unstable, so long as your side wins.

[AnimalMuppet]

This may be a definition thing. Some statements that correspond more closely to reality. I call those statements "more true".

It sounds like your definition of "true" is more like "what we all agree on". I don't like that definition, because it means that things can go from "true" to "not true" and back to "true", as the consensus changes. I find that disconcerting, because that isn't how I think about truth. (Note well: I am not saying that your definition is wrong, merely that it doesn't match how I think about truth.)

But I think we can agree on this: Those who care about reality and those who care about winning consensus are talking about completely different things.

[rectang]

To me, "post-truth" is more an acknowledgement of a state of affairs where multiple parties stake irreconcilable and immutable claims on what is true.

The truth may be obvious to you, but what if there is someone who asserts an incompatible view they claim is the truth? Even if one view is objectively correct, if those who hold the objectively incorrect view steadfastly maintain that is the truth, you're still stuck.

> Those who care about reality and those who care about winning consensus are talking about completely different things.

Sure, but even winning consensus isn't important if you can suppress the opposition and impose your will.

If you're in Russia and you know what's actually happening in Ukraine, it doesn't do you a damn bit of good because Putin's "truth" trumps all others.

[krb686]

> Reality exists, but truth does not.

Actual reality and Truth are the same thing. Because two parties cannot agree on what they perceive the Truth to be does not imply it doesn't exist. In fact, both parties could be wrong - Truth could be a 3rd thing both are oblivious to.