Hacker News new | ask | show | jobs
by wcoenen 1507 days ago
> The entirety of human history since prehistoric times

Extrapolating from the past doesn't always work. There are real limits.

Take the rate of energy consumption of human civilization for example, which is currently about 17 terawatt[1]. Thermodynamics tells us that after doing useful work, practically all of that energy ends up as waste heat. (A small fraction is stored, e.g. aluminium stores some energy. I assume this is negligible.)

The power received by the Earth from the sun is about 170,000 terawatt[2], a factor 10,000 more. So plenty of room for growth, right?

But now take a modest 2% yearly growth. This is a factor 1.02 each year. So 500 years of 2% growth would be a factor 1.02^500 = about 20,000.

Maybe we could actually do that with fusion power. But then we'd have two suns(!) worth of extra waste heat to deal with. This cannot work. Current concerns about global warming pale in comparison. Even if we found a way to radiate all that heat into space as infrared, e.g. by concentrating the heat into country sized radiator panels, 35 years of 2% growth would double the waste heat again.

A similar calculation can be done for the growth of anything physical. And even if you continue growth off Earth, you'll soon hit the limits of the solar system. Even the volume of an expanding sphere at light speed cannot keep up with an exponential function.

[1] https://www.theworldcounts.com/stories/current_world_energy_...

[2] https://news.mit.edu/2011/energy-scale-part3-1026

2 comments

People always talk about compound interest. Not enough people talk about compound waste heat.
Technology can produce goods with greater intrinsic value for less energy and fewer materials. A modern CPU is vastly more capable that the supercomputers of the 90’s, but costs less to produce and consumes far less energy. More importantly it means the market for CPUs and their contribution to GDP has exploded.

There are ultimate physical limits to how much information can be processed with a fixed amount of energy, but we aren’t near those limits yet. I’d argue that if you factor in technological growth you could go for much longer than 500 years before running out of energy, even if you limit yourself to a type 1 civilisation.