[theamk]

I assume you mean phones?

This is not a form factor result, it's a result of a function.

If you want to have internet access without being near internet AP, you have to accept surveillance. This applies equally to phone, or tablet with SIM card, or laptop with external 3G modem.

If you are OK with only accessing internet in specific location, you can turn off cell subsystem in your phone -- this functionality is present in every phone I have seen.

(Same applies to bluetooth, wifi and other ways to track device remotely)

[spaniard89277]

Mobile phones could be open systems like PCs are. But they aren't. So we should oppose this movement to use phones for everything until the situation changes.

Not to mention that old people is suffering (at least here in Spain) a lot because services push everyone into apps etc.

I cancelled my fathers bank account for this very reason and moved him to a credit union. It was painful but their customer support was so awful that it was worth it.

The last straw was that they told him he couldn't do a money transfer from his local office but he had to use a mobile app. He called me to help him with that. That got me angry.

[Wowfunhappy]

I agree. However, phones are also uniquely addictive, which IMO is a strong case for dropping them if they interfere with your life. We should at least make sure it is possible to drop them.

(I don't love using the word "addictive" here because phones are not chemically addictive, but any other term makes the point less clear.)

[rhn_mk1]

> If you want to have internet access without being near internet AP, you have to accept surveillance. This applies equally to phone, or tablet with SIM card, or laptop with external 3G modem.

That is true in practice, but not true in theory. There are urban WiFi networks that already operate without spying on the users. Nothing prevents mobile networks from being applied in the same way on a technical level.

In fact when you're using a mobile network, you are near an internet AP in the form of a cell tower. Taking 5G NR, you even have to be nearer to it than you would be to your WiFi AP.

Surveillance is not a result of form factor or function, it's a result of social organization.