[rchaud]

> For a long time, religion filled this void, but for almost everyone, it no longer does.

Did religion actually fill this void? Or did enough people simply go through life not voicing any of their troubles for fear of exclusion or even institutionalization in a religious and highly superstitious society that didn't understand mental health?

Religion didn't prevent alcoholism, out of wedlock pregnancies or domestic violence. It did however force families to take brutal measures to keep their missteps a secret from the rest of society.

[JackFr]

No. I think you misunderstand.

When you tell people there is nothing transcendent, that life is indeed meaningless - sometimes they believe you.

[paulryanrogers]

Isn't it best to tell people life is meaningless if that's where the evidence leads? After a few decades pursuing 'god' and sacrificing to ascend I think teaching false hope (with or without strings attached) is worse.

[PaulDavisThe1st]

Telling anyone that life is meaningless is utterly different from telling them that you believe that there is no external agent or agency that provides a meaning for our lives. Asserting that life is meaningless is completely different from asserting that its meaning is personal and must be discovered by each of us.

[JackFr]

If it’s meaningless what does it matter?

Think about it.

[scaramanga]

Spoiler alert.

It means the statement that "it's meaningless" is, in itself, meaningless. That liberates you to construct any system of meaning that you like. But that freedom can also be quite frightening and anxiety inducing.

If that is the case, then you have a couple of choices (broadly speaking):

1. Soothe the anxiety away with opium, doom scrolling, religion, career, keto, multi-level marketing, or whatever. After all you are probably struggling to survive and assert ones own existence, against a backdrop of other fears which are much more realistic than abstract concerns about meaning (eg. losing one's job, income, looks, etc).

2. Rely on a social fabric of emotionally supportive family, friends, significant relations in a context of peace, freedom, financial and job security, your own physical fitness, and other stabilising, fear minimizing, forces which free up your emotional resources to let you focus on not just finding your own meaning but to create a collective meaning in connection with others who are, themselves, meaningful to you.

To be clear, I am not dissing, opium, religion, careers, or even keto per se :) I think those things are all fine if enjoyed in the proper context.

[JackFr]

> It means the statement that "it's meaningless" is, in itself, meaningless. That liberates you to construct any system of meaning that you like.

No. The idea that your life has no transcendent meaning does not free you to “create any system of meaning you like”.

It means your life has no transcendent meaning.

Now the statement, “Your life has no meaning.” is not knowable, but it is true or false. Personally I believe, but cannot, prove that it is false. My point is that if you believe it is true, any follow-up claim you want to make is moot.

What’s even the point?

[evanmoran]

Your point is beautifully made, but I think keto is probably on the wrong side of the ledger. Diets are the hard work that pays off into that better fitness and some of that fancy “stabilizing, fear minimizing” stuff you speak of.

That said, if you mean doom scrolling r/loseit and r/keto and not actually doing it then you are totally right :)

[makeitdouble]

If you have no strong opinions on the meaning of your life , strong religions would come and greedily take any ground you were willing to concede. If you really had no idea what you want to do you might as well end up in a covent or an abbey.

The presence of that extreme also allowed not being religious to be itself a strong voluntary choice.

It doesn’t prevent alcoholism or other human problems, just force filled the “why am I here, what am I going” gap whenever people found nothing else to fill it with.

I think we are less religious overall for very good reasons, now we should pay more attention to the gap that is less empty and what would come to fill it.

[scaramanga]

They [religions] also took over politics, and made it so that you could go to prison for not attending church every sunday (at least they did in England). As they said at the time: no biship? then no king...

Religion can only reasonably fill the gap in meaning if it isn't forcefully shoved into said gap. If shoved there, it's just another foreign body that miserably fails to heal anything as any number of other quack solutions: alcohol, social media, impulse purchasing, etc. In other words, it's just another opiate, but one which for a long time, was forced on people at literal gunpoint.

Not dissing religion per se, I just think that when we say "we used to have religion, and psychological health was fine", then we're looking at it with insanely rose-tinted glasses... actually, veering off in to total delusion?

But I am kind of guessing what historical periods we're talking about. Maybe we mean in prehistory, like the mesolithic? Because there's a lot less evidence about that so you have space to suppose that it was all very lovely, there were few tribes, they didn't have to violently compete, and internally they were all emotionally supportive environments in which a rich tapestry of mystical beliefs provided members with a deep sense of meaning and connection. But I would still be pretty skeptical about that. Not saying it didn't happen. But how widely and for how long?