[DavidVoid]

How is Gris empty and pretentious? Empty-ish, sure, mechanically it's a rather simple game, but pretentious? It's just an aesthetically beautiful and simple indie game, it's not something that tries to portray itself as being much "deeper" or more intelligent than it actually is.

[johnchristopher]

Every people I have talked about it (IRL) portray the game as being deep though (n=3) and so did some reviews I read. I have the same opinion of Celeste and Oldman's Journey. Very weak story line, no subtlety in their outlook on humane emotions. Not deep enough to me or not deep enough for what matters to me I'd rather say.

More than 10 years ago I played a little game that was developed (I think) over a week-end. A side-scrolling game, 4 block high, one spritey character that can only go forward and walk around obstacles (block of colours). The character gets older and older and always dies in the end. There are weird items you can pick up and seems to increase your lifespan but that's it. At some point you can meet another character and if you choose to walk with her then there are less path you can take. But if your character dies then you switch to that other character. The author said it was to show there are things you can't do or have to differently when you become a couple. The game was 2 minutes long, top and it was some kind of comment on life, nothing more, nothing less but I still think it had a deeper connection to the player than Gris, Celeste or Oldman's Journey could ever have (well at least it did with me). I think those games just scream to the player what to feel and when and I think it's less interesting. End of rambling ^^. I am trying to find the game back by looking at IGF festival archives but no lock so far.

[satyrnein]

The game was called Passage; I still remember it very clearly. If you chose to form a couple, you wouldn't be able to squeeze into certain spaces to get certain treasure chests. The "message" of that mechanic, that being part of a couple means you have to forego some opportunities in life, isn't particularly controversial or novel, but "feeling" it through the mechanic was really impactful. (And that was just one aspect of that tiny little game!)

Similarly, there was a game called Brothers that delivered its punchline through its mechanics in a powerful way. (I don't want to spoil it for anyone!) I'm not sure if it's art or whatever, but it's something interesting and distinct from what you get in other forms of media.

Meanwhile, I enjoyed both Gris and Celeste, but purely on a mechanical and/or aesthetic level, and not really a connection to any deeper message.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

I mean it makes sense that Gris (a game sold on vibes) would have detractors primarily by the people who didn’t vibe with it, and is beloved by people who did. Art is subjective, yknow? You don’t have to like art that you don’t like. If you fundamentally don’t understand where it’s coming from that’s a different question altogether.

[johnchristopher]

> If you fundamentally don’t understand where it’s coming from that’s a different question altogether.

I think what you bring into the piece of art you are looking at/into (or rather immersing yourself into) matters as much as what the author put into it. So I do agree with you, "where it's coming from" is always interesting to follow. Sometimes it doesn't click on the level we want to click but that's okay, maybe it'll click later (sometimes you need to experience some things IRL to really understand what was going on with a piece of art that didn't click and sometimes what you experienced in real life will make it unbearable to look at some art evoking it).

Regarding Gris: yeah, the hype didn't help. But I poured 3-4 hours into the game on 2 different occasions and the game did bore me and I didn't find what I was looking at interesting, at least not enough to keep me playing.

[SamoyedFurFluff]

You’re right in what the consumer brings to a piece matters just as much as the piece itself. But being able to process the piece at all is what I was trying to get at there, in a media literacy sense. It’s very easy to dismiss a piece of work due to a lack of media literacy (with caveat that it is possible to also be so up the ass of the institution that one makes art for which the only people who can find it comprehensible are other institution-saavy folks.)

[bhedgeoser]

It's a cheap copy of journey.

[johnchristopher]

I hated every minute of Journey. And I even fell in the mountain bug at the end of the game and started over to see if I really disliked it and yup. I thought Ico was way, way, way better at conveying the same kind of story.