[McLaren_Ferrari]

The conversation is about GPS for the general public and google maps.

Those things emerged for the general public circa 2010.

So 1970 to 2010 that's 40 years not 20. Also those who paid the lionshare of that were of course not young but in their 50 or 60, because that's the demographic which pays more taxes.

Highly unlikely they got to see it.

That's the reason why every person talking about space should know that the state goes out for them to take money from people's pockets.

A brief stint into an insurance company, pension fund, Sovreign wealth fund or hedge funds would render them much more pragmatic about costs and tradeoffs.

[dlsa]

I've planted many seeds to grow trees I'll never sit under. As did many many many others before me. This is the true nature of this world.

Perhaps you might reconsider your limiting beliefs before reality catches up with you. Maybe not. At least you might still yet have fun on roads and highways you didn't pay for. Schools you didn't build. Parks your money never constructed.

I cannot imagine being so limited and short-sighted. But, as they say, You be you.

[Stratoscope]

You're off by a decade.

Garmin introduced their StreetPilot in 1998. I didn't buy the first model, but when the StreetPilot III came out in early 2002 I jumped on it. That GPS served me well for many years.

Sure, GPS wasn't ubiquitous like it is today where everyone has one in their pocket, but it certainly was available to the general public.

[McLaren_Ferrari]

> Garmin introduced their StreetPilot in 1998. I didn't buy the first model, but when the StreetPilot III came out in early 2002 I jumped on it. That GPS served me well for many years.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/garmin-street-pilot-ii...

"the manufacturer lists $1,272"

1,272$ in 2002 = 2120$ in 2022.

This is what people mean when they say techno-utopianists, space fans and SV types are completely detached from reality.

Living in the world of fairy tales and unicorns.

In the end when things are not done with enthusiastic consent from all parties involved, it's only a matter of time before the chicken come home to roost and people will look to get their money back from the organizations that took them

Rockets and Mars helicopters are cool but the vast majority of the population has other priorities. The companies providing actual quality of life to Americans are Walmart, Costco, Google, Microsoft, Exxon, IBM, Shell, McDonalds, Berkshire...not spaceX

[Stratoscope]

So I bought the deluxe model. I happened to find my original purchase in Moneydance (a quick search for "gps" did it) and I paid $834.99 with tax and shipping.

I don't see why that puts me in a world of fairy tales and unicorns. I wasn't rich, I just saw the value and chose to buy it. It was a small fraction of what I paid for my car, after all.

Perhaps more to the point, the original StreetPilot from 1998 had a list price of $400.

[db48x]

Clearly nobody benefited when when truck and taxi drivers started buying these. There were no benefits to society at all when every rental car came with a GPS system or when new cars started shipping with built–in navigation systems. None of those improve anyone’s quality of life, which is all that counts.

[McLaren_Ferrari]

Oh cmon. The money of regular taxpayers was the first in and the quality of life for them was the last out.

The investment only started paying real dividends in terms of generalized quality of life in the 2010s.

You want to say it was 35 years and not 40? Fine. If you are a guy who was in his 50/60 back in the 1970s then 40-35-30 or even if I give you 20 years if you consider that the investment totally repaid itself when the early adopters started buying GPS (which is a very bad way to calculate it )....it's all the same. You didn't see improvements in your quality of life because given life expectancy back then chances are you'd not be having a life at all (and this includes when the very early adopters bought it)

[db48x]

So a bridge that takes 5 years to build is a scam because the 90–year–olds won’t live to see it built? That’s overly reductionist. In your way of thinking the rewards must be instantly available in order to be worth anything. I say that humanity needs more long–term projects, not more short–term consumerism.

[McLaren_Ferrari]

> I say that humanity needs more long–term projects, not more short–term consumerism.

Right. If this is so crystal clear then you'd not have any problems finding people who'd put up their own money instead of extorting them.

Crystal clear + you'd have to convince a bunch 90 year olds it should not be too hard...then everybody is happy. Even scammers have the decency to convince old people to give them their money as opposed to extorting them under the threat of violence .

For sure when I am 90 I'd do everything in my power to avoid being sucked into paying for stuff that I'll never get to see or use. Old people are not jailed for tax evasion, even today...so I guess unless something changes if I get to that ripe age it would be the same.