[munk-a]

Just because everyone else is more terrible doesn't mean Apple still isn't terrible.

It's a design decision to use proprietary batteries that are difficult to change by consumers and can't be easily manufactured by third parties. Batteries aren't expensive enough to warrant that kind of service charge.

[TameAntelope]

The point is that's not terrible, it's actually pretty good, considering all of the work they do to optimize every square millimeter in their phones.

[jader201]

I think this is the root issue many people have been complaining about for years: Apple’s obsession with “smaller”.

Many people would be happy with a larger phone, if it meant you could access it a little easier to repair it — or replace the battery, which most people wouldn’t consider a “repair” — yourself.

[windowsrookie]

Apple has made every new iphone and MacBook pro larger than the last generation to fit larger batteries.

"Many people would be happy with a larger phone, if it meant you could access it a little easier to repair it — or replace the battery, which most people wouldn’t consider a “repair” — yourself."

Apple did just that, and you're still not happy. They made the new iphones larger with a bigger battery. They now sell you the parts directly so you can repair it yourself.

They have made it as easy as they can to repair, while still having the device sealed and waterproof.

They literally have done what you are complaining about right now.

[mynameisvlad]

Would many people?

The HN crowd, sure, but the general population?

I don't think they consider repairability and battery replacement, let alone put it above the device "looking good".

[thebigman433]

> Many people would be happy with a larger phone, if it meant you could access it a little easier to repair it — or replace the battery, which most people wouldn’t consider a “repair” — yourself.

I am pretty curious to know if this is true or not. The general HN or r/hardware crowds would be for sure, but I dont actually think the general public would find it a compelling "feature". Most people would probably buy the replacement battery directly from Apple anyway, and if theyre going to do that, I imagine most will just have them replace it too. Plus degradation is fairly minimal now imo, especially within the ~3 year span the average person keeps their phone. I think most people would just prefer to upgrade at that point.

Not to say I dont support user replaceable batteries (I think all phones should have them), I just dont think it actually matters at all to the average user.

[KerrAvon]

You’re conflating MacBooks and phones. Size matters for things you put in your pocket and purse, less so for something like a serious pro laptop.

[suetoniusp91]

Why are you stumping for less control over things you "own". Do you truly believe that the inability to access the phones battery is related to phone size?

Would it have to become a foot long clown phone to have a removable battery?

[halostatue]

It is completely related to being watertight, and that matters to me far more than user replaceable.

[munk-a]

Having an unreplaceable battery is not a requirement for watertightness - it certainly makes design easier but you can do both.

[throwaway48375]

My old phones with removable batteries fit in my pocket just fine.

[windowsrookie]

Your old phone doesn't get nearly the battery life of a new one. The iPhone 13 Pro Max will stream video for 25 hours on battery.

https://www.apple.com/iphone-13-pro/specs/

Also the new iphones are waterproof, your old phone was not.

[munk-a]

My old flip phone actually survived three trips through the wash before giving up the ghost - each time with minimal damage.

There are ways to protect devices from water without making the whole things unserviceable.

[throwaway48375]

I don't see why battery life is relevant to phone size. My point was just that I don't mind a bigger phone. It doesn't matter to me. We got to the point that they were thin enough long ago. If they could add a few millimeters of thickness and have a phone with a battery that lasted 30 or 40 hours that would be preferable to me. Instead manufactures are obsessed with making thinner and thinner phones.

As for waterproofing I have never in my entire life ruined a phone by dropping it into water. I would still prefer removable batteries. It is a good trade-off in my opinion.

I am willing to concede that my opinions might not reflect those of the general public.

[tinus_hn]

Clearly not so many that it’s profitable to build that kind of phone. The reality is that a phone like the Fairphone, which is a fine phone, does show that down that road you end up with a pretty expensive phone that looks bulky, is not waterproof (even though it’s a great achievement it is water resistant) and uses suboptimal components.

[spaceisballer]

Yeah when did same day service become terrible? Everyone these days wants the world instead of a minor inconvenience. And is mad if they have any inconvenience. My Nintendo Joy Cons started having drift and between shipping them and getting them back it’s just about a week. Not bad by my standards. But seeing people commenting online it’s like Nintendo is asking for their first and second born child waiting that long.

[raxxorraxor]

My phone isn't larger than an iPhone and I can change the battery myself. A bad excuse remains a bad excuse.

[windowsrookie]

The iPhone 13 Pro Max can stream video for 25 hours. How long can your phone?

Waterproofing is more important to me than a removable battery. Apple will replace the battery for $69 when it is time. And they will still be providing software updates for it in 6 years.

How much is a replacement battery for your non-waterproof phone? How long will it receive software updates? Will you buy a new one when they stop updating it?

[TameAntelope]

I struggle to understand how you think your personal preferences represent the market as a whole...

[simonh]

How's it's water resistance?

[raxxorraxor]

It doesn't die in the rain or from coffee or sugary drinks. Also not from dropping it into snow. I have not tested it otherwise. I would estimate IPX4.

[travisgriggs]

> It's a design decision to use proprietary batteries that are difficult to change by consumers and can't be easily manufactured by third parties.

I’m honestly curious… has this ever been proven? It’s decent -and common assertion/speculation.

But I’m curious if there has ever been a high level ex engineer, or court document, or something that just states clearly “yes, a primary/convincing motivation to move to internal batteries was because of increased lock in revenue”?

[KerrAvon]

No, it has not. And it probably is false. It is unquestionably simpler to design devices at Apple’s scale if the battery is hard to replace. Whether you think it’s worth the trade off is a different question.

[greedo]

Aren't iFixit's batteries third party?