[phkahler]

They're paid a shit ton more. And because of that, more nurses are quitting to do the travel thing, which worsens the shortage and increases demand for travel nurses ;-) never seen an industry fuck itself over so bad. That's really the issue - healthcare has become an industry, not a profession.

[joshgel]

It's really amazing to see travel nurses come back to work at a place they just left. They are now doing the same job as before, are getting paid almost twice as much with better schedules and are working next to people that they know and are friends with.

It's honestly surprising that more haven't taken the jump and is really shocking that hospitals aren't doing more to retain critical staff.

[zaptheimpaler]

Its hilarious that nursing shares this problem with the tech industry and probably with most other industries. Every company is extremely allergic to giving raises and is happy to let their workforce churn constantly. You would think they believe that experience has no value.

But on the hiring side, experience is one of the most widely accepted signals of value.

[TecoAndJix]

The hospitals have been asking Biden to put a stop to it: https://www.npr.org/2022/02/02/1077710203/hospitals-ask-bide...

[Sohcahtoa82]

I can only react with this face: https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/Opo...

Help me understand this. Make it make sense...

1. Hospitals pay their nurses $X, which is way too low

2. Nurses quit because they're underpaid and overworked

3. Hospitals have a nurse staffing crisis and so pay travel nurses 2 * $X (or more!)

4. Hospitals are in a panic over the cost of travel nurses, yet instead of paying their nurses more to keep them around and eliminate the need for travel nurses, they ask the government to cap the cost of travel nurses

My mind is exploding over the ridiculousness of it.

[pc86]

It sounds nurses just need to be paid more, or travel nurses need to be paid less. Equilibrium is probably somewhere between the two extremes.

Apropos of nothing but why is the knee jerk reaction "we need executive action to fix this staffing problem?"

[lotsofpulp]

Why would travel nurses need to be paid less?

[pc86]

If wages equalized, it's unlikely they would all equalize to the top of the range. It's more likely to be somewhere in the top quartile or quintile.

[lotsofpulp]

Why would they equalize? I assume there is a premium required for not going back to one’s own home everyday.

[lotsofpulp]

As you noted at the beginning of your comment, the issue is the pay to quality of life at work ratio being too low.

[s1artibartfast]

AT some point you hit diminishing returns on the pay/QAL ratio.

IF the tradeoff is bad at 200k/yr, it wont be better at 225k/yr or 250k/yr

[lotsofpulp]

Then increase the pay even more or increase the quality of life at work.

Instead of $250k, halve the work load somehow and make it two $125k.

If there is no number, then society cannot afford it.

But this is nursing, not trying to find ways around the 2nd law of thermodynamics. If nurses received $300k/year income, then there probably would not be a shortage since the barrier to entry is not that high.

If we really want to get down to the nitty gritty of it, most people cannot afford quality nurse care (or doctors or hospitals). So the question really comes down to how much wealth is society willing to redistribute to those who need it in the form of healthcare?

[s1artibartfast]

Totally agree. With lowering wages and cranking out more nurses. I think this is a more sustainable solution.

[t-3]

Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement.

[dragonwriter]

> Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr. Plenty of room for improvement.

“Nurses” can be used to mean many things (CNAs, LVNs/LPNs, RNs) but this is specifically RNs, who, make much more than that, generally (median $77.6k/yr) https://www.bls.gov/ooh/healthcare/mobile/registered-nurses....

[JumpCrisscross]

> median $77.6k/yr

Given the amount of school a nurse must have, that’s low.

[ejb999]

2 years of school to be an RN, 4 for BSN - it's not a lot of school, it's an average amount of school at most.

[s1artibartfast]

The point is that I know nurses that make 200k a year and still complain about the workload. More nurses and better hours is the solution. Meanwhile the trend is to make it more and more difficult to become a nurse and higher and higher for hospitals to have nurses

[ejb999]

>>Sure, but nurses are more like 30-40k/yr.

Not even close if you are talking about the USA (and actual nurses, not CNA's or MAs) - starting pay for 2 year RN degrees near me are about 55-65K, and you easily go over 100K in a few years.

[BobbyJo]

The market... finds a way.

[bumby]

While technically true, what we're trying to avoid is forcing the market to find a way that may include an interim period of extremely bad outcomes before correcting itself