[paulryanrogers]

Still strikes me as cowardly since the program was/is grossly unconstitutional.

And I think Snowden has proven the constitution can survive the disclosure that the government had an illegal, poorly overseen dragnet. Clapper is ultimately responsible for what is considered classified. Feels like circular logic to say he was forced to lie to the public and non-committee representatives about things he had authority to disclose.

[mc32]

Yes, exactly. It was an illegal program and instead of denouncing a grossly illegal program he sought to protect it through procedural means.

[jacobolus]

It’s fair to criticize the whole US intelligence establishment (and their congressional overseers, and every president of both parties for the past 40+ years) without thinking that Clapper should be personally criminally liable for following standard practice here.

* * *

While we are talking about cowardly though, why has Edward Snowden, president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation (!), neither said anything publicly nor resigned after 2 months of Russian crackdown on journalists and dissidents (in Russia they are now arresting people holding up invisible signs based on the imagined anti-government messages on them, and arresting journalists for no reason at all), explicit orders to the Russian military to murder journalists in Ukraine, etc.?

I was generally a fan of Snowden (with some reservations) before the past 2 months, considering him a flawed but courageous man of principle, but wow is he letting us all down this time.

[mc32]

I think it's pretty obvious why. He's between a rock and a hard place. He was not beyond the reach of the US on allegations of spying releasing government secrets and a whole bunch of other laws he broke in order to become a whistleblower against the government's illicit programs --the only place which provided him refuge was Russia. No one else would take him. What do you expect, that he bite the cruel hand that feeds him? Be realistic.

PS. that's a very unwarranted swipe. Might as well request Obama to turn in his Nobel Peace Prize speaking of incongruencies.

[jacobolus]

> What do you expect, that he bite the cruel hand that feeds him?

Snowden’s claim to fame is “biting the hand” in service of humanity. Is he still a man of principle or has living in an actual police state turned him into a compliant pet? You tell me.

> very unwarranted swipe. Might as well request Obama

The name “Snowden” is in the title of this discussion topic. But requesting Obama return his Nobel Prize seems reasonable enough to me; feel free to do that here or wherever else.

[ncmncm]

What do you imagine Snowden is supposed to do? He has exactly zero control over any single detail of any of it. He is under the thumb of a murderous thug. Not speaking up says more than he ever could aloud.

[jacobolus]

He is supposed to resign as president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, or even urge its dissolution.

Remaining there implies to the world that the Foundation does not believe its stated founding principles and is little more than a front organization for the Russian state, and undermines any past work he has done to promote press freedom.

[ncmncm]

> I was generally a fan of Snowden (with some reservations) before the past 2 months...

Who do you imagine you are fooling? I doubt you are even being paid for such clumsy stooging.

[jacobolus]

I think Snowden’s initial leak exposing widespread illegal action by the US intelligence community was a courageous act of conscience, and I think he did his best to reveal criminal behavior in what he considered to be a measured and responsible way. I think the US presidents since should have pardoned him and welcomed him to return to the USA (but I also understand the other side of this argument, and I think reasonable people can disagree on this question). But in light of the Ukraine war, it’s hard to trust his more recent motivations.

You have no problem with the president of the “Freedom of the Press Foundation” giving Putin a free pass for (a) mass murder of civilians and (b) systematic attack on freedom of the press in Russia and around the world? What do you imagine the Freedom of the Press Foundation is supposed to stand for?

Who am I supposed to be a stooge for? The people of Ukraine and their supporters? The (former) independent Russian press? A secret cabal of CIA-funded Ukrainian gay Jewish Nazis using their secret biolabs to turn us all into lizard people?

I’m all for holding the USA (and Britain, Germany, Saudia Arabia, Israel, China, Turkey, India, ...) accountable for censorship, crimes against journalists, illegal surveillance, etc., but the ongoing atrocities in Ukraine and linked press crackdown are without any doubt the most acute threat to freedom of the press (and more generally to Enlightenment values / classical liberalism / democracy) in the world in April 2022. Those who don’t even acknowledge that Russian actions are illegal and morally unjustifiable are completely undermining whatever principles they purported to hold.

[ncmncm]

I read this as you giving a free pass to CIA employees and contractors who murder US citizens and foreign innocents, and blaming "the USA" (i.e., us) for the murders, instead.

Oh, that wasn't what you meant?

Snowden has no ability to offer or withhold passes to anybody. Which you already knew.