[toper-centage]

Honestly some great ideas (better antenna, e-ink display for basic SMSing, quick dial, probably huge battery life), but they can't be serious about the rotary dial.

> Previously, phones with physical keys required a clamshell (flip) form-factor to prevent unintended dialing. Rotary dials are naturally resistant to butt dialing.

You can solve butt dialing with a number of ways, like another hardware switch. This solution seems much more cumbersome, and I can't believe this is not done simply out of novelty.

[JasonFruit]

This particular kind of novelty is kind of appealing to people who want to be conspicuously, obstreperously Luddite, while still carrying a mobile phone. I admit I kind of want one of these novel bits of tech just to show off how Luddite I am.

[Syonyk]

Indeed... I want one too! Pocketable rotary dial phone? Just, $400 can cover a lot of other things.

I consider carrying something like this (I carry an AT&T Flip IV at the moment if I remember the thing) to serve as a reminder to other people that not everyone has, nor wants, smartphone-type capabilities. At the local farmer's market last weekend, a number of various political booths (on all sides of the spectrum) had "Sign our petition!" type signs - as QR codes only. My device doesn't decode QR codes easily, nor will the browser handle a standard website very well. I typically carry a laptop, but they don't print the URLs...

Of course, then there's the problem of being on the fringe and the absurdity of "And therefore follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and a bunch of other big tech platforms!" - I point that one out often enough too.

I'm at a position in my life where there's really no downside to carrying "the weird alternative" and showing people that, yes, I do in fact continue to exist, can have phone calls, SMS text, and basic maps, while not feeding into the horribly human-toxic ecosystem that modern smartphones have become. I mean, I can even use Bluetooth to the car for making phone calls, or play music from my SD card to a Bluetooth speaker! But I don't have email on it, I don't have any social medias, the games are crap and I don't bother with them, etc. It's a minimally functional device that I end up leaving home a lot because I just forget about it - and that, coming from the smartphone world, is a huge improvement.

I get a lot of positive reactions, too - most people simply haven't thought about the fact that the smartphone is really only 10-15 years old for most people. We lived before it. We will live after it. And life is objectively better without one now.

[stavros]

This is just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I love my phone, even though I don't use social media, or play predatory games, or whatever. It lets me talk to my friends all day, doesn't distract me unless I want to be distracted (all notifications are off), and entertains me when I'm bored.

Your post seems a bit "I couldn't use my phone responsibly so I got rid of it", which is fine (I can't have sweets in the house, as I'll eat them too often), but you shouldn't generalize your lack of self-control to everyone. Some people have a perfectly fine relationship with their smartphone.

[JasonFruit]

The parent post even says, "I'm at the point in my life," which doesn't sound like they're saying it's for everyone.

Further, are you sure that "entertains me when I'm bored" represents a benefit? I think boredom serves a useful purpose, and quelling it with empty activity might defeat that purpose.

[stavros]

> "I'm at the point in my life," which doesn't sound like they're saying it's for everyone.

I took that as a generalization, but maybe they did mean in their specific life, rather than every human's life.

> Further, are you sure that "entertains me when I'm bored" represents a benefit?

I do, sometimes I'm bored and want to be productive, sometimes I want to be unproductive. The phone is for the latter. If I didn't have it, I wouldn't be productive, I'd just be feeling bad.

[Syonyk]

> ...but maybe they did mean in their specific life, rather than every human's life.

Yes, it's something I can do in my life specifically. I recognize not everyone is able to do it depending on work (I couldn't drive for Uber/Lyft/[insert food delivery service of the week here] with a KaiOS device, but neither am I trying to do that), and there are some downsides in terms of having to carry separate devices for other functions (typically a pocket camera for photos, and CDs in the car for audiobooks), but they're nothing I find particularly objectionable.

The reality is that I'm just dropping back to a 1990s or early 2000s way of doing things, which I lived through, and find a better way of handling things than a smartphone-mediated-always-on world that's become the default - not because people have thought through it and want it, but because it's the most profitable set of defaults to the tech companies and app vendors involved.

> The phone is for the latter. If I didn't have it, I wouldn't be productive, I'd just be feeling bad.

I find boredom quite useful. I typically have a paper notebook and pencil in my pocket anymore for those times.

[Syonyk]

> Your post seems a bit "I couldn't use my phone responsibly so I got rid of it", which is fine...

I was perfectly fine with my smartphone, I had it greyscale, heavily restricted in terms of what was installed, etc. It wasn't a particular problem... but at that point, neither was it a particular benefit. Battery life was "a few days at best," it was large and expensive, and I tend to enjoy playing in the weeds of "What's possible?" vs "What's the default?"

As I didn't know anyone who was carrying a feature phone instead of a smartphone, I set out to figure out what that looks like, with the constraints of "I don't want to annoy other people too badly with my choices" - so the first attempt, a Bananaphone, went out quickly because it couldn't do MMS based group texting. The Flip IV handles that, if not well, then "in a way that doesn't irritate other people, mostly." It doesn't render any emojis, but I'm fine with that.

By "point in my life where I can do this," I mean that people around me simply expect me to have oddly broken or limited computer systems and communications systems, so if I'm off in some weeds or another, it's no particular surprise. I don't need 100% reliably daily comms, people don't expect me to respond instantly, and everyone knows that if something's on fire, use the phone feature of the cell system and I'll pick up. Assuming my phone is nearby.

I've written up more on the experiments here: https://www.sevarg.net/2022/01/22/kaios-bananaphone-flip-iv-...

I hate what modern smartphones have become, and I'm fairly vocal about that. I think that they've turned into expensive, human-toxic bits of ewaste looking for a place to happen, and that they've been the primary enablers of the always-on surveillance capitalism systems we see today, to such great harm to humanity. To then continue using them, despite "Well, yeah, but I turned off notifications...", is a form of hypocrisy I try to avoid in life as much as I can. I can be as right as the day is long about the benefits of a vegetarian, low meat, or vegan diet, but if I'm talking to people about it while chowing down on a bacon double cheeseburger, I can reasonably expect nobody to listen to me. The same goes for tech habits. I can't rail against smartphones and social media, on smartphones and social media, and expect much beyond a well deserved eye roll.

I at least try to live out my convictions regarding technology, which means that things like the blog post I linked above are hosted on a server I own and have colo'd locally.

And I'll entirely admit that there exist a small number of features I've not found ways to replace a smartphone for, so I use my legacy device for those and only carry it with me when I need access to a particular building that has smartphone based locks (I don't like them, but I didn't install them, other people like them, and they don't have an easily usable key backup), or if I'm doing Part 107 drone operations for some reason or another.

[stavros]

Ah, yeah, I can agree with that. I don't have the same experience as you, but if yours works for you, I'm glad.

[kwhitefoot]

I know this is off topic and it's not a criticism of your comment but I think it's a shame that Luddite has become so watered down. The real life Luddites put their lives on the line in the fight against industrial weaving. The didn't just avoid using a steam loom while drinking an almond latte.

[JasonFruit]

I'm more bothered when "Luddite" is used as a slur against people who refuse certain technologies in a principled way. That is, when it's used in a historically-knowledgeable way, but still deployed as an insult.

[dylan604]

first definition in a dictionary says Luddite is someone opposed to new technology. your definition has been moved to the second definition of the word. so the world has moved past you and you now seem to be a Luddite (of sorts) hanging on to a definition of the word the world has found less useful.

[kwhitefoot]

I still think it's a shame.

But, HN needs to add emojis to the upvote so I can say that you made me smile without the effort of actually writing a comment!

[hoffspot]

I think there are shades of gray to be recognized between obstreperously "Retro" and obstreperously Luddite. There are still a significant cohort of people alive that grew up in the era where the rotary phone interface was the only phone interface. Using this device in public could be merely a nod and a wink to others in the same cohort and a nice conversation starter rather than a position against the advancement of technology. You will pry my smartphone out of my cold, dead hands but I think it would be fun to have this device around to occasionally sport out in public for the laughs. And in a nod to yourself and the other comment, thank you for teaching me a new word (obstreperously).

[NikolaNovak]

Curious - Why "obstreperously "?

I would've assumed something like "Ostentatiously" would've been the word; but I've seen "obstreperously" couple of times in this thread now, and had to look it up (it's a new word to me:) - seems to be "noisy and difficult to control", and that gives it a whole different, perhaps more negative slant?

P.S. FWIW, in my limited experience, it is typically the most technologically savvy amongst us that go through incredible effort to discover, purchase, setup, own, operate and integrate retro/Luddite devices in their lives :-)

[Syonyk]

> P.S. FWIW, in my limited experience, it is typically the most technologically savvy amongst us that go through incredible effort to discover, purchase, setup, own, operate and integrate retro/Luddite devices in their lives

Oh, absolutely! Part of it is the enjoyment and skill to make something like that work (it's a non-trivial bit of programming to interface modern electronics with a rotary dialer, cell modem, audio codec, etc, and to have it all more or less work reliably).

The other part, though, I think is that people in those spaces see just how wrong everything has gone - the piles of complexity that never quite work, the constant data leaks, the invasion of privacy for surveillance profits, the fight for attention based on what's good for the company and not good for the users, etc. And a lot of us, myself included, want no part of that.

My wife and I spent last night on the couch listening through a wonderful recording of Handel's Messiah, on 4 quite heavy vinyl LPs. It was a great evening!

[NikolaNovak]

Thx; I suppose that's also why my fridge, microwave, tv and door lock are as dumb and unconnected as I can make them :->

I found a quote a while back - don't know the source - which sums up how many IT experts view IT:

"Non-magic users: collect crystals, call their pet a familiar, draw pentagrams.

Magic users:the most magical things I keep in my house are rocks, and I keep a hammer next to them in case they act up"

[Syonyk]

I've seen the more directly tech version of that:

Tech Enthusiasts: Everything in my house is wired to the Internet of Things! I control it all from my smartphone! My smart-house is Bluetooth enabled and I can give it voice commands via Alexa! I love the future!

Programmers / Engineers: The most recent piece of technology I own is a printer from 2004 and I keep a loaded gun ready to shoot it if it ever makes an unexpected noise.

I'm definitely on the second half. We still have a Nest, but only because I've not convinced myself that the HestiaPi will actually run our system properly... and I can't get parts for it.

[JasonFruit]

I started the "obstreperously" thing in this thread, so I guess I'm honor-bound to explain. You've exactly pegged what I meant to communicate: loud, obnoxious, over-the-top obvious, like ostentatious, but no chance of being taken as non-annoying.

[ydlr]

I had to lookup "obstreperously." Thank you for teaching me a new word.

[egypturnash]

I suspect the main point of this whole phone is “having a big rotary dial on a cel phone would be funny”. “Naturally resistant to butt dialing” is a bit of deadpan humor.

[enriquto]

As I see it, the rotary dial is the main feature, the rest are just nice things to have (that you can get elsewhere from many dumb phones).

It's an extremely cool project and I can't wait to get one!

[recuter]

You know you can just get a vintage one for a song, real beauties, heavy enough to clobber a would be assassin.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/182098/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=rotary...

[kwhitefoot]

Weight is helpful not only for fighting off assassins. A dial telephone needs to be heavy with good non-slip feet or you have to hold it down while dialling. The UK Trimphone weighed 800 g and people complained that dialling with it was difficult.

[drewzero1]

I have a couple of those around. I had to learn to dial them as a kid when we moved to a house that still had them hard-wired to the wall.

Someday I'd like to try to use them as an intercom/hotline between the house and workshop, but I haven't figured out how to power the circuit and (especially) the ring signal. (Grandpa always did his own phone wiring and told me you really didn't want to be touching the terminal when a call came through, something like 100V AC!)

[timonoko]

Connecting two rotary phones (via 40 volt battery) is the easiest thing. They work as-they-are without modifications. When the phone is off-hook, the dialling rotator makes pulses and when the phone is on-hook those pulses cause the bell to ring. But not very loudly, because the real ringing pulses are 80 volts.

Source: I am rotary-telephone-era Telecommunication Engineer.

[drewzero1]

Thanks for the info! Sounds a lot easier than anything I was imagining. I'll have to dig up a couple of those 4-pin sockets and see if I can source a battery.

[ipdashc]

Completely overkill for just an intercom, but an analog telephone adapter would let you connect those to a VoIP server (like Asterisk, etc). Could be cool.

For just a hotline/intercom setup, I think a telephone line simulator might do the job, but those seem stupidly expensive!

EDIT: The other reply seems a lot more knowledgeable, ignore this one

[drewzero1]

Thanks! I was looking into a line simulator, but yeah they're expensive!

I thought about setting something up with an old PBX from work, but they're too new for pulse dialing. I was trying to figure out if I could build something with old modems but never got anywhere with that.

[dylan604]

In no way would these qualify as mobile

[skupig]

What's wrong with novelty? I agree with the next comment over, the rotary dialer is the best part. This is an interesting and beautiful creative project, not a mass market consumer product.

[throwaway4aday]

From my perspective it's a feature, if I were to switch to a phone like this it would be because I wanted my phone to only do one thing handle important communication. No apps, no internet, no texting, phone calls only. That said, I could see having both a regular smartphone and a phone like this. In that case I would treat this phone as a private line only given out to a small number of people. That would allow me to leave my regular smartphone off or at home if I felt like disconnecting for a while but I would still be reachable by phone call through a distraction free device.

[ajsnigrutin]

> basic SMSing

Aw man, typing an sms on a rotary dial would be fun :D It would take half an hour to respond, but still fun a first few times :)