[movedx]

Well, 90% yes and 10% no, in my opinion.

Yes, because of the obvious ramifications, as you've alluded to.

No, because it's a private company you're asking the loan of. If they don't want to lend to you, then they don't have to lend to you. I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc.

but mostly yes. I think the credit economy is an important thing to understand and people should be able to access credit so they can actualise their lives.

[bzxcvbn]

> I believe they should be able to come to this conclusion however they like, except based on the obvious factors like culture, gender (or lack/fluidity of), etc.

Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that?

More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms?

(Note: I am not condoning discrimination. In fact, I personally don't think that private business should be able to do whatever they want, and that they should be much more restricted than they are today in many, many different respects.)

[movedx]

> Really? How do you figure? I genuinely cannot tell how you are reconciling these two points of view. While should a private business be able to do business however it wants, but somehow be restricted when it comes to this list of 3-4 factors? Can you elaborate on that?

I don't get how you're confused by this notion. A business should be able to operate however it likes, within the confines of the laws of society. What don't you get about that?

> More specifically, how do you reconcile this opinion with the fact that many algorithmic models do perpetuate existing discriminations against these groups that you listed, despite these things supposedly not being parameters of the algorithms?

I'm sure there are many examples of laws not being obeyed, ethics being dodged, or morality being misaligned, but that doesn't take away the simple fact that a business should be able to do business however it likes provided it's obeying the law. If a business is not obeying the law, then it's prevented from doing business. If it's not prevented despite the obvious legal breaches, then it's corrupt or the government is corrupt.

Is there something about this you're missing?

[hiptobecubic]

What about immediate proxies for those things? I can determine your culture, gender, etc based on things like your shopping characteristics. Maybe i just deny loans to people who don't ever buy sunscreen? Or people who prefer menthol cigarettes? Or people who donate to the wrong charities?

Saying that private businesses can just do whatever they want is basically incompatible with Western society as we know it. It only works at small scale precisely because little shops don't have access to data about their customers and they are legally barred from using the obvious clues like "wears a turban" or "has short hair and cargo pants"

[movedx]

> Saying that private businesses can just do whatever they want is basically incompatible with Western society

But I never said that, though. I said they can operate however they like within the bounds of society's laws. You've turned something I've said into something I did not say, and I expect an apology on your part for placing me in a negative light.

I believe in socially responsible, healthy business practices that add positive value to the economy they operate inside of, not detract from it. Laws should be obeyed.