[ushakov]

> Didn't expect to see Fig here this morning.

Yeah yeah right and you just appeared out of nowhere with a 300-word explainer. "Just in case". Stop this shit-show already, everybody knows you're a YC-baked company

YC-baked companies get tips and notifications when they're about to get featured

people are critiquing you below and you're asking HN mods to downrank negative comments to keep up your PR-game

my harsh, but valid criticism of your product ended up at the bottom of page, although it has 20 points and should actually be higher than yours and any other comment, but life's easy when you can cheat a bit!

see yourself: https://imgur.com/a/Z5AZkik

how can a comment with 20+ points be the last one on the page?

[__sy__]

> YC-baked [sic] companies get tips and notifications when they're about to get featured

We don't.

[ushakov]

us outsiders can't know for sure!

for example i didn't knew a comment critiquing a YC-company could be pinned down

but now i know and this doesn't make neither HN nor Fig better in my eyes

[__sy__]

My understanding is that high-karma accounts can downvote comments/posts. HN is still primarily a community where supporting & encouraging those building things is the norm. Criticism of makers isn't rare, but my hunch is that it's less accepted. So this could explain the downvotes. Also keep in mind that HN is still a work in progress—to this day. Dang works hard to keep a civil, supportive community, and how upvotes/downvotes get weighted could be at play too.

[ushakov]

i don't know how many people must have downvoted the comment to bring it to the very bottom of the page, but as it stands it has 25 points

before some invisible magic happened, the comment was the first one on the page

can HN mods give an explanation to this?

[dang]

HN moderators didn't touch your comment. We moderate HN less, not more, when YC or a YC startup is the story. That's literally the first principle of HN moderation—lots of past explanation here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

There are a small number of trusted users (not moderators or high-karma accounts, but people who have been on HN for many years) who have the ability to mark a comment generic or offtopic, which downweights it. We encourage them to do that when a generic or offtopic comment is sitting at the top of a page, choking out more interesting discussion. It's actually the single biggest thing we've found to improve thread quality, because generic and offtopic subthreads—especially angry ones, like the one you started—tend to quickly suck all the oxygen out of a conversation, and end up making the thread be about obvious-generic things rather than the intellectually interesting details of a specific article.

This is an experiment in extending moderation powers to the community at large (and I'd love to extend it further*, because the results have been superb so far). But it has nothing to do with YC—in fact we've instructed these users not to apply such downweights when YC or a YC-funded startup is the story, because the principle I mentioned above takes highest precedence. So I'd presume that the user who downweighted your subthread had no idea that Fig was a YC startup.

You posted 16 comments in this thread attacking someone's product from what is clearly a pre-existing entrenched position. That's way too much, and not at all the curious conversation that this site is supposed to be for. (Edit: we also got an unusual number of emails complaining about how you derailed the thread.) So I think the user who applied the downweight in your case was correct in principle—doing that did improve the quality of the thread (at least for a while), which is exactly what the downweight is for. They just didn't catch the YC aspect; if they had, I'm sure they would have held back.

* (Side note: if anyone sees this and wants to 'try out' for the right to downweight comments in this way, you're welcome to email [e-mail]. Send a few examples of subthreads you think should have been downweighted and I'll take a look.)

[noitpmeder]

Out of curiosity, are these actions visible in any way for a normal (non-mod/admin) user?

I don't have a bone to pick here -- HN is one of the better moderated sites ive seen for good discussion.

[ushakov]

hey dang, first of all, it is very brave of you to admit that HN has a elite group of users who can downweight (reorder) comments and thanks for confirming that my comment's position on the page was indeed manipulated by those outside forces

i'd like to ask couple questions:

- why aren't regular downvotes enough to moderate the conversation?

- what is the selection process for these users, do you make sure they are unbiased?

- do any users, who currently possess said abilities have any connection to YC or companies that YC have funded?

- do you review the comments these users are downweighting to make sure the act is legitimate?

- will you punish users who disregard the downweighting rules (such as the case here)?

you also admit that this thread should have been moderated less, as it is about YC-company

if so, then why haven't you still reversed the downweights on my comments to fix the rule-breaking behaviour of your shadow mods?

[__sy__]

this is an excellent answer. dang, Thanks as always!