[candiodari]

We should be careful of outright demonizing Putin. He's not just a monster and he can be reasoned with. Maybe he even has some legitimate grievances (or at least things we might choose to accomodate to avoid ...)

Perhaps we can to have systems, like the "we're testing an ICBM" system we have in place, to avoid escalations that will draw us into WW3. There must a way to get a reasoned, thoughtful and cooperative answer to this question. For example, let's say we place 5 test satellites in orbit and if you shoot one (?) of those down, you get to request blocking internet service in a geographical region, without escalating things into a space war.

[jacquesm]

That may have been the case in the past, but today he's just a monster. He had his chance at statesmanship and royally messed it up and the sooner the mad dog is put down the better and then we have to hope that the next dog won't be madder. I wonder if we'll ever see a world where Russia plays nice and stays nice.

[saiya-jin]

> I wonder if we'll ever see a world where Russia plays nice and stays nice.

Unfortunately any real hope for that ship has sailed down the toilet at hypersonic speeds. Its not about the amount of good, smart, moral etc. folks that are still in Russia, in relatively educated population of 160 million there will always be quite a few of those.

But this layer is, and will be marginal and powerless in Russia unless its already part of government and thus on side of corruption, theft and organized murder. Mainstream applauds Putin genocide or not, or in best possible scenario indulges in complacency, preferring seemingly strong dictator over any uncertainty that more freedom can bring. Weakening any russian influence and strength is by far the best course of action, short term and especially long term.

Only a fool comes again and again with open hands for an embrace to a sociopath wielding blood stained knife.

Its a mistake when trying to apply western thinking and actions to Russia, they are very far from it and getting further away as we speak.

All this, and much much more. Plus yeah, Putin is a mass murderer, allies didn't negotiate much with Hitler neither. He also said and put in contracts whatever gave advantage at that moment, only to break it at first occasion.

[jacquesm]

I fear that you are right.

But then we've essentially already set the stage for a re-run.