[recuter]

> Surely the kindergartener attitude is the attitude that a group of people should be denied self-determination and forced to be part of a larger political body against their will

HN lately doesn't fail to disappoint. I don't know what else to do other than quote what you are replying to. Turn your auto pilot off.

> I am neither for nor against Catalan independence

The reasoning China and Russia give for their actions is facile. You're rather making my point.

  "Catalonia should be independent! And Barcelona should be an independent city-state within it! Why not!"

  "I am neither for nor against independence but this is an overly simplistic attitude, you clearly haven't thought about what you're saying seriously at all"

  "You're just like China!"