[sbarre]

I mean, this was all happening before too, we just had less visibility into it.

If you think that the governments of 'western democracies' weren't spying on their own citizens or going against their own laws - even in collaboration with private interests - before the advent of the Internet and spyware/malware, I've got bad news for you.

[colpabar]

Sure, but even now with the greater visibility we have, these claims are never taken seriously en masse. One group would call you a traitor, and another would call you a conspiracy theorist.

I do not have a solution, but I'd just like to point out that if someone on HN makes a comment like the one GP did, they 100% understand that this isn't "new". I also don't think we should just accept this as a part of life because "it was all happening before", because the level of spying the internet has enabled is orders of magnitude worse than it was without it. We should be afraid and upset.

[sbarre]

I agree with the latter part of what you're saying, but as for the former, you'd be surprised how many people I've met who really do think a lot of this surveillance and "our government does bad things" stuff is a recent development.

And yes, I have been, and remain, upset about it. No worries there.

[runnerup]

If anything, what’s “new” would be any widespread-among-the-proletariat expectation that governments aren’t just a mixture of personalities assembled into ad hoc and historical factions feuding to control as much money and power as possible.

I would like to learn more about common views on this. Would my belief above actually be true going back as long as monarchies have existed, until maybe post WW2?

I’d see it as a magical period between WW2 and today where the belief was in fairness and universal rule of law.

[sbarre]

> I’d see it as a magical period between WW2 and today where the belief was in fairness and universal rule of law.

Even this, I would say, was manufactured, and not as widespread of a belief as the "winners write history" camp would have us believe.

It certainly wasn't true, or even thought true, in America (and other western countries too) if you weren't white and Christian.

[pvaldes]

Everybody is pointing to the government because yeah, Spain bad. I have a different candidate for you. Why not Interpol?

A lad involved in crypto trade and online voting travels to Switzerland, from a place notorious by recent suspicious money movements linked with Switzerland banks. I bet that this particular combination of keywords would raise some eyebrows and trigger a discreet interest by any police working in anticorruption or money laundering.

[chopin]

You're correct, but: with modern tech there are vastly more intrusion vectors which are cheap and hard to detect.

[sbarre]

Very true.