[callalex]

>”I find the effect of even a little alcohol both disturbing and mind-dulling and I deliberately avoid getting into that state. On the other hand, the alcoholic either experiences different physical effects from alcohol than I do and or his/her visceral perception of those physical effects of the alcohol are very different to mine.”

As an alcoholic I think an often overlooked aspect is the opposite of this: how it feels to NOT have the alcohol.

[hilbert42]

Right, what you said makes sense. Essentially, it's the same thing, that is, we're feeling at our best in opposite states.

My perception of the world and state of mind seems better to me sans ethanol, yours is the opposite. But that doesn't mean it's a bed of roses for me, it's just that ethanol doesn't work for me to make things better. This is a very complex matter of which millions of words have already been written and clearly I'm not going to come up with any new insights.

What I've tried to say is that these differering worldviews make it difficult to make life easier for alcoholics.

It's strange really why different people have such different responses to alcohol. Despite what I said about the negative effects of alcohol on me I nevertheless love the taste of good wine and I reckon it's a damn cruel act of fate that alcoholic drinks are so nice and yet at the same time alcohol is far from being just another innocuous additive.

Trouble is that the level of alcohol in many alcoholic drinks has increased in recent years when it ought to have been decreasing. For example, a top Bordeaux traditionally has 12.5% alcohol-that is, the world's best wine needs only that amount of alcohol, yet on the shelves of liquor stores where I live almost all wines now have 14.5% or more alcohol. It used not be like this but winemakers found that if they increased the level of alcohol then the wines needed almost no ageing and could be turned over more quickly.

That's a sore point with me, wines may be sold more quickly by increasing their alcohol content but good wines must still be aged. Again the quick buck has gotten in the way of better health and governments have done stuff-all about it.

I hope that alcohol eventually becomes much less of a problem for you.

[alar44]

Not sure how your missing the fact that people drink to shut off or dull their senses. No one drinks to become smarter or more perceptive. The very point is to get your brain to chill out in a sense, unwind, relax, etc.

Also a 2% increase in alcohol content isn't noticeable in any way other than MAYBE taste (and I'm sure most people wouldn't even notice that).

[hilbert42]

I haven't missed that point, see my comment to heavyset. It's not possible to cover every topic in these posts. If you want a more extensive view of my thoughs on these matters then you could search through my long-winded boring posts on the opioid epidemic, oxycontin, Purdue and the Sacklers and the miscarriage of justice - and the abject failure of the FDA to stop the epidemic (there are many of them). Better still, just take my word that I'm well aware of the issues.

I will disagree with you over the matter of the 2%. This extra ethanol does make a considerable difference and has been shown to do so for a number of reasons some quite complex that I cannot do justice to here. However, I'll mention a quick one for starters: the extra few percent spitit is significant as it often masks the high level of acids in young wine (malic, latic, bytric, sorbic, tartaric, etc.) with the consequence that many people drink considerably more wine in one go. Thus, they not only get the extra 2% ethanol but also an addotional amount from the extra wine they've consumed (and remember this wine already 2% stronger).

The acid levels drops significantly in older wines that have been left to age so that problem doesn't happen with them. Winemakers now actively cultivate and promote this high-alcohol, soft-style wine and they've been very successful in doing so over the last 30 or so years. It saves huge inventories of wine from being stored by over three years or more (there's much saved moolah there).

This then actively discourages research into producing flavorsome wines with much lower alcohol (at present, reducing the ethanol content to 10% or lower makes the wine thinnish in character and it spoils easily). Much oenological research is needed to boost the body and flavor in low alcohol wines and at the moment there's precious little incentive to provide money for this research. It urgently needs government intervention and regulation to overcome the problem.

BTW, decades ago I worked in a vinyard/winery for a short while.