[sidibe]

Well according to the Russian media the west and Lviv particularly was the hotbed of Nazism (back a month ago some distinction was made that that was the particularly bad part of Ukraine, but now it's all teeming with Nazis), so denazification would have to involve the west too. I think it's pretty clear the goal was to replace the government at least, and if they could get another Lukashenko that in itself is almost "annexing"

[yucky]

Well the Azov Battalion was and is in Mariupol (not Lyiv), and they are the vanguard of the Nazi element in Ukraine. As to your point about Putin wanting a more pro-Russian government in Ukraine, of that I have no doubt.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> the Azov Battalion was and is in Mariupol

"the Azov Battalion" hasn't existed since 2015

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion#Current_status

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-azov-battali...

[yucky]

"Azov's military and political wings formally separated in 2016, when the far-right National Corps party was founded. The Azov battalion had by then been integrated into the Ukrainian National Guard. An effective fighting force that's very much involved in the current conflict, the battalion has a history of neo-Nazi leanings, which have not been entirely extinguished by its integration into the Ukrainian military."

[SideburnsOfDoom]

You seem to be quoting from here:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/03/29/europe/ukraine-azov-movem...

Cite your sources please.

I note that they also say "Moscow has given the regiment an outsized role in the conflict" ... "Ukraine "is not a cesspit for Nazi sympathizers" ... "There are far-right actors prominent in Russia, too." ... "For its part, Russia also has a thriving ultra-nationalist scene that is tolerated by the authorities." ... " some experts say Russia's fixation on a minor player like the Azov movement serves a purpose -- allowing the Kremlin to frame the conflict as an ideological and even existential struggle. However remote from reality that may be."

> "Azov's military and political wings..."

And which one - military or political - is of interest to you?

The first, the military wing, is just another regiment (not a Battalion) under regular military command now.

There are _militant nationalists_ in a country's _national military_ ? No shit, that's literally the right place for them. Any country will be the same: people who want to fight for their country are a natural fit for ... fighting for thier country. Tell me that the USA doesn't have any gung-ho conservative patriots in the armed services ranks before you make a big deal out of this.

This is not remarkable about Ukraine outside of Russian propaganda, as the above CBS and CNN links make clear.

You say that the army is "very much involved in the current conflict"? No fooling, what else would the actual army be doing in wartime?

The second, political:

Myth: "Nazism is rampant in Ukrainian politics and society, supported by authorities in Kyiv."

Reality: "The candidate for the far-right nationalist party, Svoboda, won 1.6% of the vote in the 2019 presidential election."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/03/russia-ukraine...

This is a much lower percentage than in many EU countries. And I that see your "far-right National Corps party" was similar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Corps#Election_result...

Reality: President Zelenskyy is secular Jewish, and the Odessa religious Jewish community was thriving in 2018

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.MAGAZINE-...

That is not an indicator of widespread "neo-Nazi leanings".

So why do you continually bring this misleading scare story up? It's nothing but Russian propaganda talking points that don't have basis in current reality. The CBS link above made that clear, but you did not respond to it. Your own CNN report says the same.

Talk to us about the same in Russian military (e.g. Wagner Group) and society (Mr Putin's recent unhinged speeches calling for more Russian Lebensraum) before you say that this is a Ukrainian problem.

[yucky]

So first you say Azov no longer exists, and then when you get called out for spreading disinformation, you write a text wall explaining why although the Azov Nazi's are very much still prevalent in Ukraine and fighting in this conflict, that it doesn't matter.

Interesting take.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> So first you say Azov no longer exists

no, I said that "the Azov Battalion" hasn't existed since 2015, when it ceased to be either independent of the military or a Battalion. This doesn't stop you using the misleading phrase.

> and then when you get called out

Cherry-picking quotes from a CNN article, without attribution, does not constitute a "call out".

> you write a text wall

I'm sorry if you didn't take the time to read it, but that is not a counter-argument in any way. First you say "you can't back up your claims with sources" then you change to "oh no, too many claims and sources, and thanks for locating my source for me, but let me fail to talk about any of them at all, but let's repeat a slur word and finish up with a 'zinger'!".

Not interesting.

[soco]

Well his take is a very polite and admirable way of calling Russia's arguments blatant lies without calling them blatant lies, and calling their perpetrators liars without calling them liars.