[theGeatZhopa]

The best part around the comments, that they are written by people not involved or linked to Germany at all.

I as a German, ask you to go cold on your heating and kill your industry - but don't tell people what to do -> at all -<

Why Germany? Why not the Austrians?

[ratsforhorses]

I did not want to suggest "ask you to go cold on your heating and kill your industry " ...maybe you're overreacting.... I suggested giving Germans some time out to extend their Easter celebrations... why not italy or austria or Switzerland? someone needs to show the way and Germany has a wealthy economy with gas reserves that would last apparently at current consumption rates till the summer so who knows how long they could last in reality...... but as one young man remarked when I met him in 2019 in Hamburg on a Saturday among 100 000 other demonstrators wanting the government to do something about climate change... Germans don't really want change, they're too comfortable... I think that goes for much of the western world, covid was an opportunity , this war is one too, for us to rethink our economics into terms more caring and sharing rather than people being run around like well paid slaves by companies whose end effect is? producing more ICE cars, fertilizers for the wheat/meat industry (Fast food Nation is an enlightening book-film as is Demain or Tomorrow a french film...)

I'm sorry if I hurt your patriotism, but I do appreciate very much your and the other comments contributing to helping me flesh out an idea.. as one commentator mentioned rebuilding Ukraine...and helping break Putin's teeth on the Ukrainian rock go hand in hand...

[theGeatZhopa]

You're warmly welcome. It's not about patriotism - which is also the very reason for conflicts of the times.

It's just, that one should not rely upon the health of others. Germany realized that a long time ago. Did a lot to curb up their economical Situation and doing some serious reforms. Also, the whole people think in terms like "we're a social democracy".

Other EU-members, like the Southerns, they did not realize that. Actually, they see Europe as a Money-Transfer-mechanism and are not willing to change anything at all. They get the eu-money and make "presents" for their voters.

Of course it's the same in Germany and may be everywhere around the world - there need to be done some reforms in terms to set the railings of the future.

So you may see, that the wealth of Germany is something not falling from the sky, but rather is a result of people's work hours.

Germans do care. They "care" for all the members of the EU. They already gave a lot of more of money. More than others in the EU. Poland and Germany take the biggest amount of refuges (with the latter, Poland, the biggest amount).

One also needs to understand that there is no "one has to start". It's already like that . Everyone is already paying a toll. The political decisions made, the sanctions - all that will cost us trillions. We're moving out of the tubed gas (energetically: stupid). We're accepting the whole self-cutting..

So, actually, what is actually expected from Germany? To give heavy artillery? Tanks? Soldiers? LoL. After the second world war Germany has been demilitarized by the block-forces. That laws didn't change since then. We're not having big army. We can develop weapons and sell them. Ukraine got something like 1 billion from Germans with the words "we can't give you. But you can buy with that money what ever you need"

So ... They help. They suffering, too. What about the U.S. should pay Europe money, because the whole war wouldn't even have started without the U.S. keeping promising (and deliver) help? If Ukraine would know some other big players wouldn't help in conflict with the "big enemy", it would not come to such escalation at all.

So, why should everyone pay, deliver, kill contracts and kill their economy, when there is a clear misbehaving of the bigger politics? And why it have to be the Germans? :) This is kind of "you have, me not, you help, I watch"

Political discussion is very necessary here.

Thank you very much for the discussion, and, truly, don't be sorry for hurting one's patriotism. If one is hurted soo much by (sometimes very true words) - that's not the guy who's gonna change anything in the world.

Cheers from Germany

[ratsforhorses]

Atm I don't know how to answer, history itself is writing on the wall, I just came across Charlie Chaplin's last speech from the dictator and think it quite relevant

"I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost…

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.

To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish…

Soldiers! don’t give yourselves to brutes - men who despise you - enslave you - who regiment your lives - tell you what to do - what to think and what to feel! Who drill you - diet you - treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don’t hate! Only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural! Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!

In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” - not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure.

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!

Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfil that promise! Let us fight to free the world - to do away with national barriers - to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!"

[theGeatZhopa]

Nice! Good say!