[innomatics]

I agree with you in the sense that I only want to work places that recognize and value great code.

But everywhere has code that stinks. And it's hard to find people with the skills and experience to get rid if it. Before it can be gotten rid off, it must be understood.

In a sense it might be valuable to use the poor code in a reading screen. Firstly so we can agree it stinks, and the reasons why. And secondly, to find people with the attitude required to clean up messes that they didn't create (good scouts).

Even when the job is greenfield, or extending great code, I'd rather have engineers with the battle scars of doing tough maintenance.

[john_the_writer]

Honestly.. It's not just the desire to clean.

The management has to be set up to allow for this. People have to be able to work towards something as a team; else we are all cleaning in different directions.

[pojzon]

If you want me to clean up the mess your ppl created over the years -> be ready to pay me hefty premium or equity.

Often times it requires not only a lot of skill but also a lot of work.

I can do it but be prepared to pay me 2-3 times the normal wage.

[ravenstine]

I see a few people didn't like what you said, and that's mystifying to me because while I understand the point of view of the business owner, as well as the reality that nearly all code stinks more or less, at the end of the day your #1 obligation is to your own interests. There's no reason people should choose to work on projects they don't like if they have no financial need to do so, or if the pay isn't enticing enough.

Attitudes will change in the next decade when vulnerabilities in software and tech become more obvious, serious, and regulated. Right now we're all happy hogs feeding from the trough of few meaningful standards, but the time will come when we are blamed for human lives lost as a result of bad code, and it's no longer going to be funny that we get paid so much to write such shit. As well, doing whatever companies pay us to do will become more shameful. From much of what I read here on HN and what I've seen in my own experience, way too many software developers will do practically anything for money and prestige.

This is why the selfishness of only wanting to work with teams that write decent code is actually more beneficial for society than "fail fast, bruh". Already, the tech bruhs aren't revered so much as they were even a handful of years ago.

[pojzon]

We need an oath the same way doctors do. We also need Software Craftsmanship principles. Unfortunately industry sucked in too many coding monkeys to make such drastic move with good pacing. Like you said - ppl have to die or be annoyed a lot to start regulating IT hard.

But TBH mission critical software has completely different set of checkboxes that are not so easy to fulfill.