[ChuckNorris89]

>Why? Because unlike the American pension system which is mostly backed by the stock market, European pension systems depend on young and healthy workers to pay the pensions of the current pensioner generation.

Which IMHO the European pension system is massively flawed as it's basically a Ponzi scheme that requires more and more people to keep the system going, more people that will consume more resources and need more real estate to live in, real-este which governments and banks have turned into a speculation vehicle making them unaffordable for the new generation of young people who are supposed to be many and pay into the system.

[BlargMcLarg]

The real problem is everyone wants to rely on the current working population, especially the middle class, despite it being evident the middle class is doing progressively worse. You don't need to pump the population numbers year after year if retirees can accept they'll be a little worse off relative to the younger generation compared to their ancestors, for example. Instead, many retirees expect the younger generations to carry the full burden and figure it out on their own.

Add to that several other problems in NL in particular, and you have a recipe for disaster. One of the main reasons people with a median income have huge trouble finding a decent place to live.

[peoplefromibiza]

> Which IMHO the European pension system is massively flawed as it's basically a Ponzi scheme

flawed, maybe, it is actually been good for people that strted working in the 50s-60s, but a Ponzi scheme?

I don't see the connection.

Most pension systems in Europe are in balance and have no problem paying the pensions, the only real problem is that the population is growing older but people get their first job much later in life and the age of retirement is not advancing at the same rate of the aging of the population.

Many pensions in my country are contributing to the economy of the family, so they are not going into the pockets of some old grumpy grandparent that lives on the shoulders of the younger generations and spend 9 months/year cruising the Mediterranean sea, having breakfast in Venice, lunch in Split and dinner in Crete.

> real-este which governments and banks have turned into a speculation vehicle

real-estate is mostly a cost in Europe, unless you have a shitload of money.

[rocqua]

In my current pension plan. If Right now everyone stopped participating, the pension is setup to be able to pay-out all currently outstanding pensions in full. There is of-course some variance in the interest rates attained, and the actuarial factors (how long people live) which mean that in reality this might not be the case. But the Dutch pension system is very much setup to _not_ be a Ponzi scheme. Money I put in is earmarked for me. The only 'collective' situation is that if there is a shortfall some of the money earmarked for me can be used for others. But such shortfalls are rare. Especially because there is 'slack' in the system to catch a shortfall not by touching my money, but by not (fully) compensating inflation.

[BlueTemplar]

Sure, but using this logic civilizations themselves are also basically Ponzi schemes.