[tdfx]

I think government work culture is handicapping the salaries more than anything else. If a consultant comes in for a year at $200/hour, the government ends their contract when they're finished with them. When the government hires someone at $50k/year, they are stuck with that person pretty much as long as that person wants to continue working there. There's a common joke with civilian defense employees that you can't get fired without committing a felony. Government work culture has this maternal mentality where it feels the need to care for workers from cradle to grave. You can never get rid of low performers, there's no layoffs when priorities change, you just have the same people that need to be shifted around to do a mediocre job elsewhere. It's completely immune to outside market forces and that makes it literally impossible to compete with private sector salaries, who have no problem laying people off if a project doesn't work out.

Each person hired by the government is a massive, open-ended liability that can most likely never be fired, never be demoted or take a pay cut, regardless of changes in circumstances for the employer. I think the USDS was a huge step in the right direction by focusing on having "tours of duty" where the term of employment is fixed. I think the government should adopt that much more broadly if it wants to be competitive with the private sector.

[NovemberWhiskey]

USDS salaries are even more absurd relative to the responsibility of the positions. Think 75%+ compensation cut even at the top of the GS scale for the calibre of people they are looking for; and the primary benefits of a Federal job like a guaranteed pension and job security don't apply in a meaningful way.

You really have to be in it for the service aspect.

[Spooky23]

Outside of the federal gov, the benefits make it difficult decision to leave .gov mid-career. (Federal pensions are not as lucrative)

It is rewarding work, especially if you’re self-motivated as there’s always new interesting work. But the salaries paid at tech companies are so nuts it’s difficult to ignore.

The place I used to work at has attrited about 30% of staff between burnout from 18 hour COVID work to greener pastures. One guy I worked with went from $125k to $500k. Assuming the tech economy doesn’t implode, even the awesome pension and benefits just aren’t worth that much.

[t-3]

I think there's an argument to be made for the networking benefits of government and military jobs. Having the experience and connections they bring may open doors that purely commercial employment does not.

[dgfitz]

A lot of people cut their teeth in government defense jobs and jump to a contractor position doing basically the same thing for double the salary.

[bee_rider]

I know there are non-corrupt cases of this, but it does seem like a close neighbor to things like regulatory capture, etc...

[DiggyJohnson]

I think it is a neighbor, as you said, and I’d go so far as to say that this is transparently a goal of this program.

[wslack]

A goal to get people into government service? Yes. A goal to enable regulatory capture? Definitely not.

[gonzo41]

Most governments have this problem. I've thought about this a lot in the Australian context and think the best way of solving the problem would be to hire on a 5 year contract that doesn't auto renew by default so you have to stay in shape for the job or look around for new options at year 4 - 4.5 and plan your exit.

In addition to this, I would also reform certain benefits that government employee's get such as long service leave after 10 years. I'd make it available at a pro-rata rate from 2.5 years onwards so people can either bank it up or start using it earlier.

I feel like these two things alone would create a lot of flexibility for government agencies and departments that would allow them to take people on for serious work, over serious timelines but not be burdened by the threat of a bad hire that will stick around forever.

[pmorici]

"You can never get rid of low performers, there's no layoffs when priorities change, you just have the same people that need to be shifted around to do a mediocre job elsewhere."

I don't think this is unique to government, these are commonly a characteristic of any organization of large size. The larger the organization the higher likely hood it has these problems. It also isn't a matter of can't but unwillingness to do so by those with the reasonability to because it is extra work or would require an uncomfortable social interaction.

[icebadger]

The DoD is implementing a new workforce category to address some of the deficiencies you mentioned [0].

Along with a compensation boost relative to the GS payscale, it provides more flexibility in hiring and firing civilian employees.

[0] https://public.cyber.mil/cw/dod-cyber-excepted-service-ces/

[morpheuskafka]

> There's a common joke with civilian defense employees that you can't get fired without committing a felony.

That seems strange in the context of defense since the government has a high degree of latitude in revoking or refusing security clearances. There are certain appeal mechanisms, but there is still a lot of room for the government to keep the actual evidence secret and a lot of deference to the governments opinion.

At any rate, it could take as a little as talking to someone from the wrong country, or a crime much less serious than a felony to lose one and therefore one's job.

[sidlls]

There are strong network effects at the level where clearances are actually hard to obtain, though. People leave government service (both military and civilian) to start consultancies and other businesses that sell products and services to the organization(s) they formerly worked for. Both they and the government workers buying their goods are incentivized to build strong relationships: the former so they can easily win contracts and the latter so they can continue to receive and expand their budgets/fiefdoms.

[throw7]

NY State has non-unionized positions called MC (Management/Confidential). My understanding is that it's sorta like contract work... you are "appointed" on a yearly or session basis. It's not a panacea though... if you look up kaloyeros, you'll see the dark side. It's disheartening how a single person in a particular position can bog down and kill the organization. It's not an easy problem to solve.