[uuyi]

I appreciate the effort that goes into these products but I find the market position weird.

Case in point: by the time I add a keyboard case to my 11" iPad Pro, it weighs more than my MacBook Air does and it's not a lot smaller. I think I should just take the MacBook Air with me. That has the same CPU, storage and memory and I can run full stack on it fine.

That is not to denigrate the usefulness of the iPad, which I run a big chunk of my life on, but editing text or code is one place it really doesn't add up.

The killer app I find with my iPad is when you need pen input. For drawing, doing route planning in OS maps and general research and note taking it's an amazing little device.

[ericlewis]

As a person who codes on MacBooks and iPads and also uses them for fun..

You’re missing the segment of people who are traveling and don’t want to take their entire MacBook places. Even if it’s smaller, I can’t simply detach it’s screen and hold it to watch Netflix or such.

I often take on the extra size an iPad may have for size versatility down the road. One doesn’t always have or want to figure out a flat surface to place your device when on the road, in bed, on toilet, or in a bath.

I also code quite a lot on my iPad as an iOS dev, because playgrounds are a fantastic way to create mini libraries, apps, or explore some idea you may have on the go. Performance is amazing with the M1 series as well.

The one thing I dont do with my iPad is any sort of pen input. I’ve never found it useful, but I’m also faster at typing than drawing or annotating. I used to always by the pencil to go with the pro, but stopped doing that a couple years ago because I simply never use it.

[uuyi]

> You’re missing the segment of people who are traveling and don’t want to take their entire MacBook places. Even if it’s smaller, I can’t simply detach it’s screen and hold it to watch Netflix or such.

This is the solution being applied before the problem again. It is a case of applying compromises to fit the solution into the available device rather than look at the problem and choose a device suitable for it. I travel with my iPad. It's fine for that. But I'm certainly not going to be writing up anything extensive or writing any code on it.

> I often take on the extra size an iPad may have for size versatility down the road. One doesn’t always have or want to figure out a flat surface to place your device when on the road, in bed, on toilet, or in a bath.

I prefer not to shit or wash where I compute :). As for the surfaces, the iPad is the least flexible device. At worst you have to hold it constantly which is painful after an hour or so.

> I also code quite a lot on my iPad as an iOS dev, because playgrounds are a fantastic way to create mini libraries, apps, or explore some idea you may have on the go. Performance is amazing with the M1 series as well.

Having used Swift Playground extensively, I think you must be living in the future where they fixed all the show stopping bugs and crashes. It's totally unusable for me and doesn't meet even a minimum bar for quality.

>The one thing I dont do with my iPad is any sort of pen input. I’ve never found it useful, but I’m also faster at typing than drawing or annotating. I used to always by the pencil to go with the pro, but stopped doing that a couple years ago because I simply never use it.

It's definitely quicker to type. But it's quicker to draw than type if the scenario isn't suited to textual description.

[ericlewis]

> This is the solution being applied before the problem again. It is a case of applying compromises to fit the solution into the available device rather than look at the problem and choose a device suitable for it. I travel with my iPad. It's fine for that. But I'm certainly not going to be writing up anything extensive or writing any code on it.

To each their own I guess.

> I prefer not to shit or wash where I compute :). As for the surfaces, the iPad is the least flexible device. At worst you have to hold it constantly which is painful after an hour or so.

11in iPad isn't that heavy, I use it for hours on end this way. Don't skip arm day?

> Having used Swift Playground extensively, I think you must be living in the future where they fixed all the show stopping bugs and crashes. It's totally unusable for me and doesn't meet even a minimum bar for quality.

Maybe try the new version? I don't know what to tell you. It works great for my primary work which is in SwiftUI and app development.

> It's definitely quicker to type. But it's quicker to draw than type if the scenario isn't suited to textual description.

Never in that scenario personally.

----

It's almost like personal devices are used in personal ways and your weird application of "logic" to peoples decision making processes differs from how others think.

[breakfastduck]

"I dont do that so the market position doesn't make sense"

[brimble]

You have to carry a separate keyboard and mouse/trackpad for a laptop if you want to use it ergonomically, anyway. The built-in stuff is great for occasional use, but awful as a main interface over long periods of time. You need to be able to have the keyboard and pointer way under where the monitor is, not stuck permanently to the bottom of it.

[lnxg33k1]

I think I don't want a laptop, but the only thing preventing me from getting the most powerful iPad is Apple policies, you are right, when you put a keyboard on the iPad it weights as much as your MacBook Pro, but then the tablet is on his desk, and the ability to remove it and just use it in the bath to read something, or to hang it to a iron arm and watch a video are not that easy with a MacBook, as soon as iPad supports virtualization and proper development workflow I am sold, I go and never come back to laptops (but I don't have laptops, only the work one)

[aspenmayer]

Another potential benefit of the iPad over macOS alternatives: you can get a waterproof case for an iPad. There’s just no easy way to make a macOS device waterproof.

As for virtualization of other OS on iOS: already exists!

https://getutm.app/

[lnxg33k1]

Ah shit that looks awesome, didn't know it! thank you!

[aspenmayer]

Check out ish.app also!

https://ish.app/

https://github.com/ish-app/ish

[lnxg33k1]

Awesome thank you! I also didn't know about this AltStore linked on the iSH website, seems nice to have alternative stores without having to jailbreak

[monkin]

iSH is great and has a lot of features, but the only problem I have with it is slowness and lagging.

[aspenmayer]

Do you know of any suitable alternatives?

I guess there’s always Android.

I’ll stick with (jailbroken) iOS, thanks.

[mbreese]

Beware - performance isn’t great and you can crash your iPad (I’ve don’t it — it was quite scary as I had never seen that happen). The iPad just doesn’t have enough memory to make running a VM a viable option for coding on an iPad, even an iPad Pro.

(My experience from a few years ago on an iPad Pro 12.9).

[uuyi]

That's never going to happen. I guarantee it.

[lnxg33k1]

I think it could happen given legislation allowing easy sideloading of apps and competition on app stores, and maybe a production simplification where it would make sense to use the same CPU on both Macbook and tables

[geoffpado]

Apple already uses the same CPU in the lower-end MacBooks (Air, Pro 13") and higher-end iPads (Air, Pro).

[w4rh4wk5]

Plus, your MacBook Air comes with a calculator.

[uuyi]

Yeah this one actually pisses me off about the iPad. The Mac calculator in RPN mode is my goto but on iOS, nope!

[jonsen]

I use this free and good RPN calculator app:

https://apps.apple.com/no/app/42s-rpn-calculator/id301525577

[mikestew]

It’s $5 in the U. S. store. I bought it anyway despite having been happy with i41CX:

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/i41cx/id292619450

[jonsen]

Oh, my bad. Though I'm pretty sure it was free when I got it way back?! Kind of irritating that you can no longer see the the price of an app you have installed.

[uuyi]

Yeah I've got that one (and a real 42s) :)

[jonsen]

For offpad I have the DM42 from SwissMicros. It has a 4 line display like the 42s app.

[uuyi]

Been trying not to buy one of them for ages now :)

[AnonymousPlanet]

FYI: You can do simple calculations in the Spotlight-like search prompt of the iPad.

[brimble]

This continues to baffle me. Apple's usually so good at the extra first party software, and they already have an iOS calculator on iPhones. WTF.

I get that they don't do it for polish reasons or whatever, but just letting the iPhone version run on the iPad would be a huge improvement.

[Etheryte]

I think there's a target market segment you're missing here and it's hinted at in the lede:

> Easily develop software, view code or take notes on the go.

iPads are very popular with students in markets where they can afford them, and tools like these are a great fit for them.

[uuyi]

I think you're extrapolating that far beyond the specification.

Honestly I've actually tried to sit and write code on an iPad. I forced myself to exclusively use one for 2 months. It's one of those things where it's entirely the wrong tool for the job. Casual note taking perhaps but that's about it.

[panzerboiler]

I write a lot of code on the iPad (more than 40h/week, both webdev and native, since at least 4 years) and I like it better than using my (aging) laptop or a desktop computer. It's incredibly smooth and forces me to do mostly one thing at a time. I find it a better match with how my brain works. That being said, you cannot do everything on it, but that is part the point.

[null_object]

> I think you're extrapolating that far beyond the specification.

I think you're extrapolating that far beyond your own datapoint of one person.

[makeitdouble]

> I think I should just take the MacBook Air with me.

This is the core differenciator: people who don’t take a MBA with them will benefit from the product.

And there can be so many reasons. Obviously not everyone buys laptops. Or they might not want to bring the work laptop on a trip but still have an option to do some coding by just pairing a keyboard. Or they hate the laptop keyboard and bring an external keyboard with them anyway. Or really love iOS and prefer the iPad. Or they killed a laptop screen when bringing it around on a tough trip and don’t want to do that again. Or they have cellular on the iPad.

[uuyi]

All of these problems are working back from the solution to the problem. Life has taught me to start at the problems.

[ericlewis]

Problem: don’t want to bring thing that must be attached to a keyboard at all times to be useful.

Solution: iPad.

[uuyi]

That's a terrible causal relation.

Run a KT decision analysis. The iPad will never come out as the device you actually end up writing code on if you're honest with yourself.

[jll29]

What I see a lot at airports is: people traveling with ALL of the following:

- mobile phone

- iPad

- Laptop

So each time another smaller device gets invented people just _add_ it instead of the smaller devices replacing the bigger ones. So despite all the technical integration, the weight of people's hand luggage (gadgets + adaptors) actually goes up, not down!

[mbreese]

I’m about to get on a plane with all of those and a remarkable tablet.

The iPad is the one I’m considering leaving, but I think I’d rather watch media on the iPad than try to bring an Apple TV.

I tried to replace the computer with the iPad, and even with the app listed above, it just wasn’t there for me.

[ericlewis]

Yeah exactly and each device has a time & place imo too, while I said travel without - I typically don't. But when it comes to the device I can wield in a given scenario it absolutely depends, having the options is great.

[ericlewis]

Uh, well.. I do. Do I need to show you my project files to prove it?

[makeitdouble]

Half of these are the problem I faced and solved with the bigger iPad Pro. I prefer it to my macbook for a lot of things, and that’s what I’m typing this response on.

Would you have the same approach to desktops vs laptops ? You would sure acknowledge that a 5k screen tower desktop on Gb LAN, TBs of disk space, no compromise CPU, powerful graphics card with an excelent keyboard is a better coding machine than a MBA in the absolute. But I don’t see someone explaining using a laptop for the same tasks as “working back from the solution to the problem”. Different form factors have different trade-offs and their pro and con.

[joeman1000]

I bought an M1 iPad Pro (12”?) last year and feel about the same. The processor is overkill and the battery life suffers as a result. It’s bulky, not nice on my lap (w/ keyboard) and is heavier than the more capable MBA. It does have some redeeming features which stop me from selling it:

+ Excellent mini-LED screen (some bad ‘blooming’ effects though)

+ It’s highly portable without the keyboard

+ It’s great for weird locations, like watching something in the bath, or while cooking

+ Enables me to easily sign and fill forms without printing

I am disappointed by the offerings for note taking with the pencil. I’m nearly through with a civil engineering degree and have had the iPad for 2 semesters. I thought this thing would be super handy for marking up plans, highlighting in textbooks, making hand-written notes in class… nope. I’ll read a pdf on it every now and then, but I find all of the other tasks too cumbersome to repeatedly perform on the iPad.

Notes are annoyingly stored inside apps (goodnotes) until you manually export them. Goodnotes itself is not very ‘good’ either. It’s clunky and turns the device into a space heater. I cannot find a pdf/note-taking app that:

+ Doesn’t have intrusive menu bars that are permanently on

+ Has sane keyboard shortcuts

+ Can edit/markup pdfs in-place without ‘importing’ them

+ Has a smooth drawing feature. (Goodnotes is smooth. Apple default is crap)

+ Has drawing tools that are more than just making squares and circles

+ Has good support for equations and scientific notation (OCR or other interaction).

Have any other science or engineering students found anything better than goodnotes or notability?

[58x14]

Concepts (https://concepts.app/en/) has been my go-to for several years. Several engineers I know use it for much of their draft work. I don't do much beyond diagrams and wireframes, but I think it covers at least half your points, and the UI is pretty wonderful.

Last I checked, you can markup PDFs in iCloud without importing / exporting, but YMMV.

[deepstack]

>The killer app I find with my iPad is when you need pen input. For drawing, doing route planning in OS maps and general research and note taking it's an amazing little device.

this is one of things I still love about Apple (being Mac user since Apple II). They really done their market research and how users use the devices. Each device is designed for some specific purposes on daily usage.

[maccard]

At least for me, I do'nt have a Macbook Air. I've got a 10" ipad air, and a 14" Macbook Pro - this would make a huge amount of sense for me for travel.

[uuyi]

I don't have a MacBook Air either despite writing that. I sold it and bought a 14" MacBook Pro. That's still better.