[quesera]

> Plus, there are a virtually unlimited number of proven tools for seeing if the circuit is live (even if there's no current flowing) to rely on such dodgy methods.

Yes. Use those. But this discussion is about when you are working on live wires, and you know you are working on live wires.

[falcolas]

A homeowner will never have to do this. And an electrician has the ability to ensure they too don't have to ever work on live wires (despite many's insistence in doing so, something about machismo, etc.).

[quesera]

We agree on this.

I have however had jobs where I really did have to work on energized equipment. Sometimes 480VAC 3-phase, but more commonly single-phase 230/240 VAC 50/60Hz or 120VAC 60Hz. I was appropriately trained for this work.

Some homeowners are too stubborn to do the proper thing when handling electrical equipment. You're not going to change their minds!

The precautions I mentioned previously were some of the more convenient and generally applicable rules that are taught to people who have to work with equipment that is less safe. If followed by stubborn homeowners, they will also be safer. That was my whole point.