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by wikidani 1540 days ago
Although I am by no means trying to deny russian warcrimes on this conflict and the fact that it's a war of aggression. I'd like to take into account the fact that during pretty much every war and siege the amount of bodies on the street have been a cause for disease and as such, perhaps we should consider that these mobile crematoriums were brought to Mariupol with the objective to mitigate the spreading of diseases (and I'm not even saying they might be concerned for the welfare of the civilian population but they might be concerned for their own troops')
2 comments

Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care. There are also reports where Russian troops didn't allow civilians hiding in the basements to take the dead out (as some weak/ill/elderly were dying in the basements from the conditions there)

And technical approach like bringing specialized crematoriums wouldn't be a typical approach for Russians in such a situation - more typical (ie. simple and quick) would for example be to dig a large trench/hole by a tank and pile the bodies into the trench. The crematoriums is really to destroy evidence.

>they might be concerned for their own troops

that isn't a concern in Russian army. As an illustration - the Russian soldiers were digging and driving tanks in the Red Forest in Chernobyl without any PPE and without dosimeters. As a result over several weeks there many - like high tens or in the low hundreds - has already got acute radiation sickness, and many more are going to get very ill in the coming months/years from the ingested and inhaled alpha and beta emitters from the disturbed soil.

> Some of the bodies on the streets of Bucha were lying for several weeks - Russia didn't care.

Until and unless Maxar agrees to provide images from their satellites for any other date between 19th March - 3rd April, any reporting on the bodies lying on the streets of Bucha for several weeks should not be taken as truthful without further investigation. For some reason Maxar denied access to such images [1] [2].

[1] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputniko...

[2] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-byl...

It isn't only Maxar. For example the drone footage of killing of that bicyclist whose body was lying on that corner with green and rusted fence

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-drone-footage-appears...

Russia propaganda has been these days like crazy million times raising the doubt like "how all those people happened to be lying on that street?", and that video clearly shows that the Russians were just shooting at anybody who just appeared on the street. "

That same article mentions the Maxar images as the proof of other bodies, including the ones with white armbands (a sign used by russian forces to identify neutral or allied individuals). A full detailed investigation is necessary to establish the time and causes of all killings so that all future trials are based on that investigative material rather than just media reporting, and there's a lot of generalized media reporting.
What Maxar has to with the cyclist? The cyclist video is completely independent from Maxar.

Investigation only is needed to find who of Russians did it. That it was done by Russians is clear from all the available information. Ie. we don't know the names of the gunners, yet we do know it were Russian APCs who shot the cyclist. And those gunners wouldn't care about your white armband. There is rich history how Russian/USSR convoys have been entering cities even back in 80ties like Baku for example or Chechnya in 90ties, and Bucha isn't an exception here.

> What Maxar has to with the cyclist? The cyclist video is completely independent from Maxar.

No one is connecting Maxar reports to the cyclist killing. Maxar reported that other killings happened on or before 19th March, whereas there's at least one evidence that the images were taken on the 1st April, after the Russian troops left the town on 30th March and after Bucha mayor's reporting on liberation of the town on 31st March [1] [2].

> That it was done by Russians is clear from all the available information.

It's clear in the case of the cyclist. It's not clear in the case of the dead people with white armbands.

> And those gunners wouldn't care about your white armband.

It's also clear that Ukrainian forces sometimes are willing to kill surrendered people with white armbands, after tying their hands too [3]

> There is rich history how Russian/USSR convoys have been entering cities even back in 80ties like Baku

there also is a rich history of Ukrainian nationalists shooting at peaceful villages just for fun [4]

[1] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Situaciya-v-Buche-CHto-byl...

[2] https://telegra-ph.translate.goog/Stoit-li-doveryat-sputniko...

[3] https://t.me/warcrimes_ua/29 | https://t.me/warcrimes_ua/28

[4] https://twitter.com/camaradabruno/status/1500248165970329603

> but they might be concerned for their own troops')

they are not concerned for the health of their troops, they've been digging trenches in the Red Forest - that alone is enough depiction