[wheelerwj]

> I think the reason you are getting so many "I disagree" responses is because many of us have had awful experiences when it comes to medical professionals and mental health.

> I've heard it said that giving antidepressants to a depressed person, without any therapy, is like giving amphetamines to a tired person: yes, they may temporarily cure your "tiredness", but what you really need is to go to sleep.

I don't even know where to start with this comment. This whole thread should be booted waaaaay off HN.

A few people have problems with medical professionals. It's true, assuming you're in america, we're definitely not the best. But you find a few 1,000 people online with bad experiences (obviously, because people with good experiences have moved on and don't spend their time researching that issue) and assume you have a complete picture but you're only looking through a pinhole of information returned with biased search results. You probably aren't googling, "how many people have gotten their lives back after using anti-depressants?"

> he should be aware of his options.

Yeah fine, be aware. Talk to professionals, get second and third opinions if necessary. Take a holistic approach to your well-being. But please lets not glorify google medicine here.

[hn_throwaway_99]

I'm not glorifying Dr. Google, but I damn as hell am sure not going to take the "just shut up and listen to your doctor" advice.

Heck, I stated off the bat that antidepressants did help me. I'm not "anti-antidepressant" at all. But I do understand the economic forces at play means that plenty of "medical professionals" are more than happy to charge $200+ for a 20 minute meds management consultation, simply because it's faster/easier than dealing with underlying issues.

As for your "This whole thread should be booted waaaaay off HN" comment, the anger people are responding to is lots of us have had horrible experiences, but we're just told to "shut up and listen to your doctor". How do you think the whole opioid epidemic came about? Huge parts of the medical establishment were more than happy to get their commission, people's well-being be damned.

[hu3]

I had a horrible experience with a psychiatrist.

Then a great experience with another psychiatrist who managed to get me to function just enough for me to go see a psychologist who not only "cured" me but gave me a superpower of being resilient against life's wraths.

So your mileage may vary.

To whom might be reading this: don't give up. It sucks but sometimes we get unlucky and need to change doctors.

[inter_netuser]

>superpower of being resilient against life's wraths.

how?

[hu3]

Therapy changed the way I see life and toned down my expectations.

I live less in the future and more in the present.

I judge myself less and feel emotions more.

[AitchEmArsey]

Can you give an example of how that improvement manifests itself in a bad situation?

Intellectually I am already well aware that my frame of mind is often the main issue and that I could simply choose not to be bothered by something - but that realization is a "system 2" thought which doesn't arrive until "system 1" has already derailed my whole day.

[jasonm23]

Tone down expectations.

This is the silver bullet in my opinion.

How do you define fairness, rethink it and tone down your expectations.

How do you define love / relationships? Rethink it and tone down your expectations.

How do you define work / career / success? Rethink it and tone down your expectations.

I honestly believe this is a huge help.

A therapist who is a good fit for you is very hard to find. Learning about the skills you need to reorganize the way you view yourself and the world, simpler and the solution which a good therapist will help you with.

As someone who has suffered from depression and been negatively impacted by bad medical interactions for this and other conditions, the only choice is to do the work myself.

[inter_netuser]

>Tone down expectations.

This sounds absolutely terrible. Something not to far from victim blaming.

Don't have a home? Learn how to be happy homeless! Husband gave you a black eye? Tone down your expectations!

[brewtide]

"expectations are the thief of joy".

[fivea]

> But you find a few 1,000 people online with bad experiences (...) and assume you have a complete picture but you're only looking through a pinhole of information returned with biased search results.

Oh I know a good story.

I know a woman who unfortunately isn't the most educated person in the world and happens to have a nasty health issue where both her feet are all swollen up and makes her hard to walk around.

She's been seeing doctors left and right to solve or mitigate her condition.

One time, when she went to an appointment at the local hospital, her doctor handed her a form for her to sign and told her just to sign on the dotted line and don't worry about it.

The form was a consent form to amputate both her legs.

I happened to come across her when she was going to get a second opinion with the very form in her hands, completely furious.

She still has both her legs, even though she still suffers from the same issue.

Oddly enough, the hospital which handed out the leg amputation form also had a malpractice suite where they amputated the wrong leg of a patient.

Moral of the story: even though medical professionals are expected to be more knowledgeable about health topics, they are still human and far from infallible. More importantly, ultimately you're the person responsible for your personal health, and you need to have a say on what's done with your life based on the info that medical professionals make available to you. If you do not take an active role on these decisions on your health, others will eventually make these decisions for you, and they may not be good or have your best interests in mind.

[inter_netuser]

>A few people have problems with medical professionals.

>"Death by medical error or accident is the nation's leading cause of accidental death"

Trust the "leading cause of accidental death".

Medical training is extremely limited. Physicians literally don't understand how any of the drugs they prescribe work, and the standard operating procedure is to memorize 2-3 drugs out of one class and never prescribe anything else in that class.

Physicians are constrained by: their hospital policy, HMO incentives, civil liability, criminal liability, boards, legislation, insurance rates, personal biases, past unique experiences, influence of their mentors, weather, bad knees, bad marriage, whatever. Sometimes they are just having a shit day. Some keep practising to the point they are so senile they attempt to sign a prescription with the syringe needle (witnessed that myself).

They are just humans. Rather greedy humans, most of the time. They will never be fully frank with you.

3rd opinion? People often seen 5+ physicians, and spend 10+ years to get a proper diagnosis.

[throwseusi34]

I've never had a serious health issue, so maybe doctors are better with them, but my experience is doctors don't ask enough questions to find the best answers.

Severe pain in testicles: ER doctor asks about blunt trauma, sees nothing, prescribes antibiotics. Family doctor later agrees. Year later, same pain! See a nurse-in-training, second question: "When was the last time you ejaculated?" ....oh... Sure enough, no antibiotics necessary.

Tapeworm-looking thing found wiping my bum: doctor ask about look and itchiness, consults a parasite specialist. They come back with pinworms, because tapeworms don't just come out. Prescribed a medicine that deals with both, and I look it up. I read the drug is perfectly safe, and also "do not use traditional remedies like pumpkin seeds, which contain trace amount of a substance that puts tapeworms to sleep" ...oh... I had just spent two days snacking through a 4 lbs. of pumpkin seeds on a nut-free whitewater trip, so it was a tapeworm.

Ball of foot hurts: Doctor stumped, sends to get orthotics. Orthotics get made custom. Years later, I try on a pair of EE wide shoes ...oh... right, wide shoes that makes sense.

Burning left side of face: wasted so much time with a few specialists, telling everybody that it doesn't really bother me I just want to be sure it's like a brain tumor. No answers from no body. Then one day, a bunch of wax falls out of left ear and ...oh... it clicks; my face burns when my ears get too full of all that wax I make.

So doctors don't always get the full picture either, because how could they surface every relevant detail in 5 minutes!

[hoseja]

I'm sorry but you seem to have some really weird issues.

Like "I worry about your executive function" weird.

[throwseusi34b]

Haha, thanks for your "concern". Spread over some 20-30 otherwise healthy active years, seems par for the course.