[ev1]

I went through SARS (v1, high mortality rate) and previously lived in a country where the default is to wear a surgical mask any time you are sick, and it's been utterly strange seeing the US response and severe misunderstanding of how things change.

The vaccine prevented spread amazingly well, assuming the mRNA one and original strain. This changed several strains later. Even when the vaccine actually did an excellent job of preventing spread entirely the US still did not get anywhere near enough vaccination, or even halfway. Most vaccines need something like 90%+ uptake for actual herd immunity, including refreshing when they wear off to maintain it - across the entire population, not just 90%+ of adults. IIRC, measles starts community spreading again when it dips below the mid to high 90s - none of this is new, but the US/CDC somehow treated it like "wow we have reached almost halfway (if you ignore more than half the population that isn't eligible but can still spread it!), what a success".

Masks work excellently when worn by everyone properly (or N95-equivalent+ when worn by one side). Masks do not work when people take them off all the time and pretend to have a water bottle. Bandanas do not work well. Gaiters do not work well.

I also frequently saw some really ridiculous "outdoor dining" where it was tents or bubbles sealed on all ends, with circulated air/heating. That is not outdoor dining, and is pointless if you are trying to reduce spread.

Pretty much all my (APAC-team, most also been through SARS) coworkers were incredibly confused as to why the US/CDC thought the virus was not permitted to infect you if you were actively eating or drinking. Indoor dining and chatter permitted during peak spread while you only had to put on a mask when you got up? What is the point?

Almost every time I see someone wearing even a surgical mask in US imagery, the nosepiece was not pushed down to form a better seal, it's below their nose, or some other form of inanity while complaining how they don't work. One of the worst things is when someone is in an enclosed area and keeps their mask off while exhaling continuously, only putting it on when someone comes in. At that point you already have a full room of aerosol. When everyone does something horrifically wrong, ignoring all guidelines and instructions, then says x doesn't work and is pointless, that is not x's fault.

There is also the whole "you should stay at home and not go to large social events BUT you can go to work that usually has more people than a friend's place, also no sick pay, also no time off" that is another can of worms.

[logic_beats_pro]

>The vaccine prevented spread amazingly well, assuming the mRNA one and original strain. This changed several strains later. Even when the vaccine actually did an excellent job of preventing spread entirely

Sorry revisionist historians, the vaccine does not and never has prevented transmission of COVID. You still get infected by, get sick from and can spread the virus. Simply read the documentation from the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA clinical trials to see the claimed benefit spelled out.

The media endlessly bleating "93% effective!" was in reference to preventing serious illness, which is the only benefit it offers.

[TurkishPoptart]

Yep. Biden, Fauci, and many other CNN/MSNBC contributors lied about this or at least reported mistruths in this regard. Honestly, calling this mRNA injection a "vaccine" (and changing the actual definition of a "vaccine" according to WHO, CDC, and Merriam-Webster) is a complete untruth. It's a prophylactic shot that may reduce the severity of infection.

I've been vaccinated against chicken pox, measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis, polio, and various other diseases, which means that I will _not_ contract these illnesses. Unlike COVID the Nineteenth, you are _not_ immune, because this product is simply not a vaccine in the 20th century sense.

And 2 years later, people at my (former) meditation retreat are now requiring proof of _three_ mRNA shots, AND require heavy-duty KN95 masks to be on-site. It's utter insanity. I can't believe how radicalized my green-tea-and-kale-salad colleagues have become since this all started. I just can't believe it.

[dudeDDRrulez]

Is it worth even talking about herd immunity when it’s impossible for the COVID-19 vaccines to provide immunity?

That use of the word immunity was attempted, sure. But had to be changed to “protection” as it doesn’t actually prevent infection nor stop the spread. Hence, no herd immunity.

[skyde]

while I agree with you that mask themselves when used correctly (ex: by doctors ) work.

What I learned from the anti-vaxxer on Facebook is that when they say "mask does not work" they mean "the government guideline does not work".

Like you said it need to be cultural and people need to genuinely try to use mask correctly not just because its the rule.

[ev1]

The government guidelines in the US were ... severely lacking, to be overly nice.

You can take off your mask to eat, you can take off your mask to drink, cotton masks are sufficient (I will give them this one, especially during the extreme supply shortage at the start), kids don't have to wear masks because kids can't get sick (they can, and they spread it), you can wear any kind of face covering including ones completely open at the bottom like a triangular bandana or overly breathable and doesn't block much like a gaiter, you don't have to isolate and also no sick pay, thus incentivising actively sick and spreading people back to work, etc.