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by realsmittysmith 1543 days ago
Burning people alive isn't cool no matter what. Burning traitors alive is a different issue, although no less humane.

sigh The Bandera argument. I lived in East Ukraine for several years and they're not all hoo rah rah about Bandera at all, so I don't buy the "all Ukrainians worship Bandera THEREFORE they're all Nazis" argument. It's lazy, frankly.

Bandera also spent most of WWII in prison, by the way.

The Israel Times "article" is a poorly researched blurb, not an article. It also says that Ukraine started an armed conflict with Russia in 2014, which is a very Putin-esque take on what the rest of the world sees as an unlawful annexation of sovereign Ukrainian territory.

Was Bandera a hardcore Ukrainian nationalist? Yeah. Remember that Wikipedia article you're citing to me?:

"Ukrainian nationalism did not historically include antisemitism as a core aspect of its program and saw Russians as well as Poles as the chief enemy with Jews playing a secondary role."

Does that mean people in WWII were angels? No. Is history much more nuanced than you're making it out to be? Yes.

Also, not sure where you're getting that 50,000 number from at all.

2 comments

I love how you completely ignored the fact that two post-coup ministers of national security were openly Nazi.

The west shook hands with Nazi defence ministers and sent them weapons.

That’s a good thing, right?

> I don't buy the "all Ukrainians worship Bandera THEREFORE they're all Nazis" argument. It's lazy, frankly.

What you are doing here is called "ignoratio elenchi" or "a strawman argument", and it is truly lazy. No one has ever made an argument that "all Ukrainians are Nazis".

On the other hand, a huge portion of evidence used as a base to claim that current post-coup Ukrainian government is in bed with neo-Nazis, is confirmed and acknowledged by institutions all over the globe and all around the sides of this particular conflict.

Including the United States and Western media, for whom acknowledging support for neo-Nazis wouldn't be politically favorable.

Ottawa Citizen - Canadian Troops training Nazis and War Criminals https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/allega...

Newsweek - Ukrainian Nationalist Volunteers Committing 'ISIS-Style' War Crimes https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrai...

Reuters - Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/...

The Nation - Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/neo-nazis-far-righ...

Foreign Policy - The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine’s Past https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewash...

The Times of Israel - Netanyahu meets with head of Ukrainian party that includes neo-Nazis https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-meets-with-head-of-u...

The Times of Israel - Call for Ukrainian priests to stop glorifying Nazis https://www.timesofisrael.com/call-for-ukrainian-priests-to-...

Al Jazeera - Attacked and abandoned: Ukraine’s forgotten Roma https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/23/attacked-and-a...

Haaretz - The Upcoming neo-Nazi Concert in Ukraine That No One Is Talking About https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-the-upcom...

The Hill - The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda https://thehill.com/opinion/international/359609-the-reality...