[buster]

That's really a big deal and just shows how governments treat their own laws and how important an open government is, in which such things can be verified and controlled!

[ceejayoz]

> That's really a big deal and just shows how governments treat their own laws...

Not really. My understanding is that German law permits trojans for surveillance.

[buster]

http://news.ycombinator.net/item?id=3090951

[canistr]

While an open government would be ideal, it won't change the fact that the CIA or any government organization will never admit to working on viruses.

[buster]

With an open government they wouldn't be able to do this in the dark.

Also, they don't need to admit it, it's not like nobody knows that this software exists.

[tptacek]

Why doesn't it simply stand to reason that software like this exists? Phone taps are far more sinister than trojans.

[wnight]

How so? The phone is largely someone else's device and as such not as trusted as your own PC.

Also, phone taps record what you say in one particular case versus PC trojans which could record everything you do or say near the computer, and everything you do on it. Trojans also put your whole computer under the attackers control and makes can make it appear, forensically, that you were doing things. If they download porn, it appears that you downloaded porn. If they send spam, it appears that you sent spam...

If sinister means dangerous, then I think trojans win hands down.

[canistr]

>With an open government they wouldn't be able to do this in the dark.

Please don't tell me you actually believe this.

[buster]

In an ideal world it would be like that, this doesn't mean i can't hope to get as near as possible to "ideal". Let's say it like that: open government is better then the partially closed down shit we have now, ok?