[gretch]

Arnold has a really good quote about this:

"A well-built physique is a status symbol. It reflects you worked hard for it; no money can buy it. You cannot borrow it, you cannot inherit it, you cannot steal it. You cannot hold onto it without constant work. It shows discipline, it shows self-respect, it shows patience, work ethic, and passion. That is why I do what I do."

Really makes you think. Not a whole lot of things out there with all of those properties

[anp]

I love the quote, but I'll offer another perspective. I had a pretty significant physical transformation over the last few years. It's the result of work I did and I feel very proud of what I've built.

But! I did it after starting to work for a big tech company. The company covered weekly therapy where I ended up doing a lot of work on my relationship with food and physical activity, the company subsidized a personal trainer in company gyms, the company provided balanced meal options at the office, the company paid me enough to spend whatever I wanted on food at home as I figured out a healthier diet and to set up a home gym during a pandemic, and my position was flexible enough or me to schedule all of these things while still advancing in my career. All of this together made it easier to imagine a future for myself and to invest in it.

I think what I've done would have been possible without these (and other) privileges, but I do feel that when I show off my fitness I am displaying a partially economic status symbol given the opportunities it created in my particular case and the pace at which it's allowed me to go. Not sure how well this extrapolates (if at all) but it does seem like it's an advantage to have the resources to make space for fitness and to optimize within that.

[gretch]

You’re saying that having a lot of money helped you have a great body. That’s true of course but the relationship is also true in reverse. You can leverage a great body into making a lot of money. Great examples are Arnold or the Rock who became big action movie stars based on their physique. Also, of course athletes.

So I don’t think “money is the key to success in every other aspect of life” is true since the relationship is bidirectional

[diatone]

Nitpick: it’s not as straightforward to leverage a great body towards money as it is to leverage money towards a great body. Arnold and Dwayne Johnson are outliers. Many athletes struggle financially.

For other reasons I agree with your end point in that money isn’t strictly necessary for success everywhere else, but please don’t suggest that money isn’t uniquely useful when put to the task.

[vidarh]

In fact, powerlifting and bodybuilding are notorious for being money drains for people who are competing but aren't in a very tiny proportion of top performers.

[gretch]

> don’t suggest that money isn’t uniquely useful when put to the task

I'm going to be completely honest with you - I just don't believe this, which was the point I was trying to make

I think you are someone who is holding a hammer, and is very skilled at using it, and thus everything looks like a nail to you.

[rufus_foreman]

There's a lot of muscle being built in prison cells at this very moment with no gym equipment whatsoever.

If you want to do it, you can do it.

You don't need to be granted privileges. No one can stop you.

[gota]

Being cultured and well read is very similar, I think

The main difference is that a physique is more immediately recognized; all you have to do to recognize Arnold is huge is look at him. But you'd have to listen some (and have enough cultural baggage yourself) to recognize that Chomsky is intelligent

Also - perhaps as a consequence - being physically fit is objective. Who would argue Arnold is _not_ huge? But I'm sure you'll find at least one person arguing "Chomsky is an idiot"

[unmole]

> being physically fit is objective

The perception of what constitutes fit is to a large extent subjective. A steroid and clen using bodybuilder with <4% might look very fit. But their blood panel and cardiogram will probably say something else entirely.

[vgeek]

Does that one person, most obviously being Alan Dershowitz, even count given that he is nuts and/or of questionable ethics? :D