[davidjfelix]

I disagree that it's easier to write than read. I tend to think Kotlin is much easier to read than java but harder to write because it tries to enforce good Java patterns at a language level.

I agree that these will slow down your build, but not significantly, and at the benefit of developer comfort to make changes. Incremental compilation largely erases these slowdowns.

[oauea]

Extension methods? Aliases? Countless more features that are designed to make your code hard to read & understand.

Build scripts are generally written once and executed hundreds or thousands of times. It makes far more sense to optimize their performance rather than ease of writing.

[davidjfelix]

It's okay to have a different opinion, but personally I'd never work at a place that did that. Java is already on thin ice and this is simply how I tolerate it and how I've seen successful java teams operate in cloud environments. If you are really seeing dramatic build times, I don't blame you for investigating them, but I'm not going to forgo years of DX improvements just because I heard on the internet one time that it's slower. I'm not going to keep arguing against your Kotlin vendetta, just don't use it, I don't care.

[oauea]

Java is on thin ice? It's the most popular business language, for good reason. You seem to have some very odd opinions, but that's fine. Bit rude to call people other people their opinions a "vendetta", though.

[davidjfelix]

The reason I'm being terse with you and perhaps a bit rude is that you started this reply thread by insulting my opinions for no reason and then continued to reply with what I believe to be both bad faith readings of my comments and naturally argumentative. I know HN values skepticism, but honestly it's tiresome. Anyways, here's my clarifying my previous comment. Please keep in mind that I fully expect you to read this in bad faith, so I've added sarcasm overtly.

Java, for me, personally, in my opinion, is on thin ice. I personally, in my opinion, would never work at a "Java shop" because in my opinion, personally, it conveys a disregard for technical suitability and individuality and supports the idea that engineers should be expendable. I believe, in my opinion, personally, that Java is, as you say, "popular" because it's forced on many workplaces by management. I don't think, in my opinion, personally, that it's a "bad" language, but its heavy use is not proportional to how "good" it is. I don't think my willingness to respond but refusal to be berated by an internet stranger is rude, and yes, I believe you have a vendetta, just like I have a vendetta against Java. If you have to use it, fine -- the above will insulate you from the really terrible things java does, in my opinion, personally. My real advice is don't use java, but see how that's a bad faith response? That's why I kept it to myself.

[MockObject]

So Java isn't on thin ice if it's used heavily.

[davidjfelix]

What do you want to hear? That you're right? Communication is a two way street, try treating it like one. "To be on thin ice" is an expression which means in a precarious or risky situation, but is commonly used in reference to personal regard or favor. !!!!!!YOU'RE RIGHT!!!! (congratulations!) Java is not at risk of falling out of use - it's a very heavily used language with lots of job opportunities. Congratulations again on being technically correct. If that's all you wanted stop reading.

I'm saying that writing, maintaining and deploying Java in a manner that is fast, pleasant, sustainable, performant and desirable for developers is already at risk, in my opinion. As a developer, Java is *not* the best solution and taking away the niceties listed puts Java in a place where it is at risk of being unsuitable for the task. This isn't solely a fault of Java, some of this is simply better solutions for problems existing around Java. Java moved quite slowly for a long time and solutions filled that gap. I understand a business' desire to have a uniform programming language that they can hire for, but these days languages look very similar and polyglotism isn't that hard to find. Choosing the right language for the task is an engineering decision just like preserving language uniformity is. I don't think either is wrong, but the more people try to make Java a place that is worse than it's competitors, the more I'll favor choosing a different right language over preserving uniformity. I hope this helps clarify what I saw to be an extremely benign opinion to voice.

[Spooky23]

Java is the COBOL of the 21st century, in both the best and worst sense.

Java stacks will be running major companies long after everyone posting in HN today is dead and gone.