[lightup]

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall.

His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minnesota's PSEO program) - leader on robotics team - lettered in 2 extra curriculars - etc etc

Why? Because U of MN doesn't consider weighted grades nor do they accept test scores anymore. So why even try hard?

The only upside is that we weren't stupid enough to put his college savings in a 529 tied to MN. We would be superscrewed if we'd done that.

35,000 applicants. 7,000 freshman admissions. My kid not even in top 1/5 of applicaents? Complete BS.

EDITs: 2021 UMN Twin Cities admission stats: https://admissions.tc.umn.edu/competitive-admission-rate (20%)

MN 529 plan 20 years ago was MN-only from what I remember. Honestly don't care.

[redacted] is "okay" school for CSci. However they have a 120MM budget and are facing 15MM shortfall for the college that hosts it. Out of state tuition for this school is 20k per year with max scholarships.

[lightup]

And young people on here imagine having 2 children 2 years apart. One of them doesn't get to go to college because of covid and the other doesn't get to go because ability didn't matter for a year.

EDIT:

I hope this never happens to your kids. Beware of being penalized for trying. Is that a lesson you will teach your kids?

I'm not "bummed". Read my post with anger.

U of MN was not his first choice. It was _fallback_.

Try on some shoes.... Imagine putting 30 years of high taxes into a state as a high earner and business owner (that's me). Then imagine that your almamater doesn't accept your kid when your kid is, in fact, a lot smarter than you and has accomplished a lot more than you did by his age.

Then imagine being that kid and being taught by the State that, while you are in the top 95th (99th) percentile nationally on test scores there's just something not right about you. Is it your GPA? It can't be. You're on the A honor roll every time.

In the end you'll never know and that is fine because the school you might have attended has changed into something it was never intended to be.

Land grant university or something else? The Great Emancipator rolls in his grave.

On the plus side the U of MN gets billions of dollars in state funding and keeps the washout money too. Win-win.

[johnnyanmac]

>Beware of being penalized for trying. Is that a lesson you will teach your kids?

Life is going to teach it one way or another, and Picard's words stand even more true as I enter my 30's as they were back when I was an angsty 14YO just trying to stay with my friends before Mom's job forces her out of state... again. Took me a while to realize I wasn't being punished for not studying enough and that this was simply a factor of life I had no control over.

[lightup]

Make it so! Those words?!

[johnnyanmac]

sorry for the late response. These words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCX90yALsI

Or rather in text form:

>"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life"

But it sounds so much better coming from the captain's mouth.

[john_moscow]

>Try on some shoes.... Imagine putting 30 years of high taxes into a state as a high earner and business owner (that's me). Then imagine that your almamater doesn't accept your kid when your kid is, in fact, a lot smarter than you and has accomplished a lot more than you did by his age.

Well, that's the whole point. The establishment doesn't want smart kids that will challenge their kids who got their papers and position through connections. They want someone who will be happy being rank-and-file for their entire life. Ideally, with no ambition to have a family and raise kids, so they can work for peanuts as well. This is frightening, but it seems to be the way America is headed.

That said, there are states that value small business owners more, and have policies aligning better with them. As the saying goes, you need to vote with your feet.

[lightup]

Amen.

[hardtke]

It's important in relating these horror stories to include whether or not he was applying to Computer Science and/or Engineering. The growth in demand for CS has outpaced any schools ability to handle the students. My daughter's college counselor had different sets of target schools depending on the major (in her case she was thinking about biomedical engineering, one of the most sought after).

[lightup]

Testify.

[hs_parent]

I'm sorry this happened to your son. It can be really disheartening for kids who work so hard.

Similar thing happened to my kid at University of California this year where test scores are also not even considered.

Wasn't as bad - they got into a 2nd tier UC so we are at least thankful for that.

[lightup]

Thanks for the kind words. Usually it works out in the end or to some sort of state where you can look back without regret. Lessons in grit for sure.

[js2]

> If you’re worried about having the account in one state and attending school in another, don’t be. With most plans, your school choice is not affected by the state of your savings plan. You can be a resident of Minnesota and send your student to college in North Carolina.

https://www.mnsaves.org/plan/details.shtml

(This is generally the case for most 529 plans.)

[lightup]

Off topic. Doesn't apply. However, yes, when we started saving it was MN schools only. I don't know what the rules are now. Remember, we're talking about something from 20 years ago.

[saagarjha]

I’m not too familiar with UMN admissions stats are, but a 3.8 weighted GPA might have hurt your son considering a lot of people applying for computer science will have an unweighted GPA that is around that or higher. You haven’t shared the unweighted GPA here but if it’s substantially lower colleges will not like that, especially state ones, since they think it shows you just take classes beyond your level.

[ausbah]

definitely not over. kicking ass in community college for a year or two and transferring to a much better school with scholarship is a great option for anyone

[lightup]

Yes, I agree 100%. Have hired several people from hands on CC here in MN.

[lr4444lr]

Wait, your state 529 plans penalize you for applying the funds to out of state schools? That sounds like a highly unusual setup. Not all states do this.

[strikelaserclaw]

It is crazy how competitive even state schools are now a days. Back in my day, it would be pretty easy to go to UVA or University of Minnesota...

[lightup]

...and it was $16k for a 4-year degree. How long does it take to make $16k now? For a mid-range programmer? Only several months.

[kizer]

35 ACT and he was rejected to University of Minnesota? Tell your kid that he’s perfectly fine and that their admissions are FUBAR.

Try UIUC (my alma). Though I was in-state. It’s gotten more selective but a top one for CS. They admitted me into CE but it was easy to transfer after doing well in my first few CS classes.

[gourabmi]

I'm curious. How many universities did he apply to ? How many accepts/ rejects from that pool?

[lightup]

He applied to [redacted] State, Rice, UNC, Duke, and U of MN - Twin Cities. Accepted at [redacted] State (they have a formula for everyone). He also got their highest out of state "scholarship" - which is more like a break on out of state tuition - no reciprocity with MN. No word from Duke yet but that probably won't happen either.

Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimistic life. He's really upset as are we all.

[strikelaserclaw]

Complete disaster for his future? I don't think so, just a slight delay. I've had many setbacks in my life, i've known people in Asia who majorly messed up an exam they'd been preparing their entire life for, they just attempted it next year, and they did fine. If you have the brains to score a 35 on the ACT with no prep, then you really shouldn't have much problems in life if you put effort and deal with setbacks.

[lightup]

THanks, he reminded me tonight that he scored 35 _twice_. LOL. I kinda suggested to him he try for perfect like his best buddy. Best buddy is accepted at Ivy school (but probably will not go due to cost from what he said).

[WoodenChair]

> Best buddy is accepted at Ivy school (but probably will not go due to cost from what he said).

All Ivy League schools are need blind; Most are free for those with family incomes <$100k. And my experience is that it really does open a lot of doors and make your life a little easier. I'm not saying you can't get a great education somewhere else; I'm saying money shouldn't be the main reason to not go for most people. The best buddy should at least ask for more aid due to need if they haven't already.

[kizer]

I replied to your other post but I’d also like to say: there is too much of a focus IMO on getting in to the “good” schools right out of HS. I remember a genius physics grad TA I had who went from community college to the UIUC graduate physics program. Undergrad education is pretty similar across the board; after all, the infamous US news rankings refer to the graduate programs (which can have ramifications for the quality of undergrad of course).

Anyways my point is that I think smart and capable people with hard work and persistence can end up at similar places when all is said and done even if they don’t start out at a “top” program.

[selimthegrim]

Have you thought about MN State Mankato? They have a good math department and he can transfer elsewhere with good rec letters from there if he doesn't like it.

[lightup]

Thanks, yes, I talked with their new director about a month ago about hiring some of their people. Lin I believe. If you're Lin you might know who I am. Small newish program (~30 admissions per year) with TC presence but turning out people with actual skills.

Put yourself in my shoes. It's great that my kid got some college credit in high school but MN is not a great place to raise a family anymore nor is it safe or .... "Quality of life" isn't really a thing like it was.

And you see this from all sort of people here. Lots of people who grew up here are sick of it and want to leave or are in process of leaving.

For where I'm not sure.

[cheeze]

> Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimistic life

I'm sorry but this is a bit over dramatic, no?

Your son still got into college. Just didn't get into the specific school he wanted.

I didn't get into the college I wanted either. I'm doing just fine.

Some of the best coworkers I've ever had went to a community college and transferred after a year or two.

I get it, it's okay to be bummed. But you're acting like his life is already over. Set a good example and instill the value that you can overcome barriers and failures in life, it's going to be okay.

[lightup]

dick comment

[ciabattabread]

good job teaching your kids that if you don't get what you want, always blame others and everyone's out to get you.

[lightup]

Yes, we blame others because we failed to work hard and get good grades and the world has it out for us. Woah is us. DiD I dO tHiS rIgHt?

[pcurve]

U MN has acceptance rate of 70%. Your son is probably more brilliant than most people who go to U MN. The hell with them and their shitty admission process. They don't deserve him.

Like others have said, he should re-apply / transfer. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but this might actually be blessing in disguise because many kids don't get to experience setback in life until too late.

Yet, this one is something he can easily overcome because he's brilliant and has supportive family. He just got super unlucky. Just need to play the game one more time to win.

Best of luck.

[lightup]

This admission statement is wrong. See source in original comment. U of MN TC accepted 20% last year and 20% this year. Kinda nuts. It's possible that the 70% number you cite is for MN State system which is like a parallel CC and university system. They are good too though.

THanks for your other comments though. Appreciated.

[selimthegrim]

See my comment above.

[wkrause]

I can only imagine how upsetting this must be for you and your family. I just hope that after you’ve had some time to process, that your son finds a way forward that brings him closer to the future he wants for himself. Just a bit of unsolicited advice from an internet stranger, but describing the situation as a “complete disaster for his future”, even if not expressed directly to your son, runs the risk of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy. Transfers, grad school, good job placements/pivots, a gap year, are all options.

[lightup]

Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. We're mainly pissed and disgusted. Appreciate your comment though. He's an optimistic person by nature so he's already moved on.

[muh_gradle]

Your son and I had really similar stats in high school. I also didn't do well in college admissions, but that was mostly due to my poor strategic decisions and affirmative action (I'm Asian). I would really emphasize that transfers are 100% legitimate avenues for him to take. It just requires immediate planning and dedication now.

[lightup]

Thank you

[a-dub]

> Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimistic life. He's really upset as are we all.

nah. if he really wants to challenge himself, he can probably get research experience pretty easily (much easier than a fancier institution) which then would set him up for a top-tier grad school or a great spot in industry. law and medicine really care about fancy brand names, but technology really only cares about accomplishment, skills, aptitude and attitude.

in my experience, most graduate TAs in STEM at fancy schools were previously superstars at state schools that didn't have crazy brand recognition.

for example: andrew grove went to the city college of new york in the 1960s, and then did a phd at uc berkeley. after that he worked in industry for a bit and then started a little company called intel.

[adamhp]

He could consider a year of community college and reapply? I went straight from community college to a top 10 public university and it was the best decision I ever made. Some might even have guaranteed admission? Good way to save money too.

[seansmccullough]

Iowa State is a good school, I went there and ended up at Amazon and then Microsoft. The engineering programs are pretty decent and have good student outcomes, I don’t see how going to Iowa State would be disastrous for your son’s future.

[SeanLuke]

If his acceptance to Iowa State as a complete disaster, why would he apply there?

Iowa State is quite a good school. BTW, it's the home of one of the first computers in history, the ABC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanasoff%E2%80%93Berry_comput...) Surely he'll do well there.

[lightup]

It's a good school but hard to stomach outstate tuition value prop. The "disaster" is having all your choices arbitrarily removed in spite of everything you did to succeed. Let's agree that's some BS.

[naniwaduni]

GP catastrophizing (they've had two days!) aside, finaid leverage can matter a lot, in both directions.

[imron]

> Complete disaster for his future

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_old_man_lost_his_horse#Tra...

[john_moscow]

>Complete disaster for his future and really a shot to his otherwise happy and optimistic life.

It depends. Imagine what if he got accepted only to be taught that his caring father (and the sole fact of having a father) is a "privilege" he should be ashamed of. And that his way of life should be culling his ambition and letting other less fortunate ones take his place.

All of this is a part of a bigger problem (switch from results to feelings and identities), and you cannot fix the symptoms without addressing the underlying cause.

Teach your son some business skills, maybe let him work for you for a while. He can then apply again next year being a bit more cynical about optimizing the KPIs.

[DownUnde]

Your son quite frankly should have expected this. I'm always wary of parents sharing "horror" stories of college application for multiple reasons. #1 Admissions are a crap shoot and you can't just apply to very selective schools and expect to walk maybe one of those schools is safety rest are reaches for any student in the country, his acceptances are most likely par for his skill level, Congrats on the test scores but north of almost 50000 students achieve scores in that range yearly. The quality of his admissions essay's are no doubt a factor. #2 if you're son is truly that talented and didn't get accepted to his dream schools than there must be some other red flags or issues you are not mentioning.

[lightup]

Wrong. https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-people-get-a-34-35-36-... 36 = 4,100 students 35 = 12,000 students

Slightly less than 50k.

UMN app has no essay or anything like that. Your disbelief is your intuition which is that something here is wrong.

In the words of Principal Skinner, "It must be the children."

[sarchertech]

There's no essay, and no test scores? They base it solely on GPA?

[lightup]

They use Common App. Here's the requirements: https://admissions.tc.umn.edu/apply/application-checklist/ap... Yeppers. Insane in the membrane. Now surf their site and see if you can find merit scholarships. That's a fun one too.

[crackercrews]

> Why? Because U of MN doesn't consider weighted grades nor do they accept test scores anymore.

This is the worst. Do they do this for equity reasons or something else?

[lightup]

I have no idea. And the weird thing in MN is that a lot of kids go to U of MN. There are probably 5 topish districts in Twin Cities. The one my son is in sends dozens of kids to U of MN. His high school pushes AP, IB, and another special program aimed at business education. They also don't frown on PSEO (FT college while in high school). That's like 4 programs you take to get ahead on college credits. They're all weighted and all aimed at kids wanting to go to college. Lots of districts do this and weight the grades to make it fair for the kids trying the hard stuff. The "poorer" district I grew up in even has IB and they weighted grades 35 years ago. Very common here.

How many kids are getting a 4.0 GPA? Lots. How many valedictorians are there in a class? 1 or 50? I think 50. Maybe it's grade inflation.

So maybe if you are in a good school with lots of programs make sure you just phone it in for 4 years if you want to make sure you get in.

[spoonjim]

Asian?

[lightup]

No, but I'm sure some of the kids on his math team will be in the same boat even through they're mainly South Asian and Chinese. Backlash against them too it seems.

[mplewis]

You are claiming that the University of Minnesota is systemically discriminating against South Asian and Chinese students? Can you back this claim up in any way?

[lightup]

I have no idea why you're replying this with a question like this. You should read the MIT blog at the top of this forum and then return without the trolling.

If you're saying I should prove that my son is on a math team and has asian friends who are going to the University of Minnesota with similar test scores and GPA? Yeah, I'll get right on that.

[spoonjim]

Every university that is admitting for “diversity” is systematically discriminating against Asian students. This is not even an open secret, it’s just stated policy.