[yomly]

sincere question - how big of a problem (in terms of #people suffering) is there of people spending beyond their means on online cosmetics?

I could see <18s getting into trouble but are there adults legit bankrupting themselves from paid-for cosmetics?

How common is the pattern for paid-for lootbox cosmetics (as compared to buy-it-now) cosmetics? Wouldn't say I'm particularly deep in either the RL/Fortnite ecosystem..!

[Sohcahtoa82]

Paid for cosmetics? Not likely to be very many people bankrupting themselves.

But Pay-To-Win games like Clash of Clans? I don't have any research, but if I was a gambling man, I'd bet at least a few thousand.

[yomly]

So I haven't played Clash of Clans but know Clash Royale exceptionally well (with a some dedicated training could probably shoot for global 10k league finish)

So speaking from experience: there's probably a finite sum you can spend on Clash Royale. I found the beginning highly addictive and I did spend hundreds when I probably shouldn't have, but the acceleration/frustration and advantage you can buy is very quickly eroded by skill. Once you have a maxed deck, it's pretty hard to buy victories and any new card might buy you some wins but will quickly get nerfed, and players better than you will still beat you (and matchmaking will converge you onto that 49% win rate).

I doubt I'm a typical player but at this stage I've probably extracted more value (by time) from clash than they've extracted from me - even if I spent 2k (a very very generous estimate), amortised over 5-6 years of play, that's not a lot of money (30 a month which is a AAA game every other month, less than a coffee a day) and has definitely given me more than that in enjoyment. And at this point my expenditure has completely plateaued.

Can I see people staying in that honeymoon phase moving from game to game? Yes maybe - I suppose by law of large numbers it's more likely than not Clash Royale peaked at like 100M players so 1k having issues is believable.

I'm all for regulation in this space (it's pretty crazy that it's not that regulated) but without data, my own personal experience feels like this is not nearly as dangerous as gambling or alcohol/drugs. The game milks you of money but doesn't create those boom-bust cycles that the traditional vices do

[HWR_14]

I only have anecdotes, not stats. But some people do ruin their lives with F2P gaming addictions.

[yomly]

financially? ie they played an f2p got hooked and spent dumped their money into oblivion such that they couldn't financially recover?

Getting addicted to an F2P game and losing your time, while sad, is not within the scope of this discussion

[HWR_14]

Financially. I personally know one person who pissed away their rent money on a F2P and got evicted. I also know of several other stories of people (not who I know personally) where they spend a lot of money they don't have, to the point of ruin. (Not being able to financially recover is a very high bar - you can financially recover from a bankruptcy for instance.)

I mean, sometimes they are kids (or the developmentally challenged)[1] but adults [2] too. There are more sad stories. One I recall was a developer who invited their superwhales to a launch of the new beta expansion in person. (All expenses paid) They sent one a plane ticket, but the the player never showed because they couldn't afford to get to the airport. I wish I could find that story online.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48925623

[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/01/why-its-s...

> losing your time, while sad, is not within the scope of this discussion

I very clearly and explicitly said "money they didn't have" in my first post and was talking about financial costs.

[yomly]

>I very clearly and explicitly said "money they didn't have" in my first post and was talking about financial costs.

fair - I missed that context when reading the immediate response replying to.

Thanks for sharing your anecdata - the industry is definitely in need of regulation something I've long believed. The ubiquity and ease of access is probably the most dangerous bit. It's astounding that mobile games were able to copy/hire all the knowledge acquired in building slot machines to create an industry that doesn't even have to pay out..!

[HWR_14]

I think ease of access is unrated as a contributing factor. But even scarier than that is the ubiquity. The ability to get a fix whenever you want (after all, it's easy to open the game and spend money!) makes resisting it a 24/7 chore.

[yomly]

yes - I very often absentmindedly open Clash out of habit even if I wasn't intending to play it.