[belorn]

If we want the best diet that science has we can look at papers like (https://www.onlinejacc.org/content/76/12/1484), or rankings like (https://health.usnews.com/best-diet/best-healthy-eating-diet...), or just go by world health organizations guide at (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/healthy-die...)

In a nutshell, obesity and sugars are the killer regardless if they are vegetarian calories or animal calories. Second comes minerals that effect blood pressure, and third its peoples need for vitamins. A healthy diet is one that avoid health risks.

Fiber rich food and fish is linked with lower weight gain.

Sugar is linked with tooth decay and obesity, especially that white stuff that get produced by plants.

A diet need to balance vitamins and minerals based on how active the individual is.

No alcohol, no drugs, no tobacco, no coffee, no added sugar or fructose to water. If its an stimulant then there is risk for harm.

A healthy diet should be diversified and balanced.

[sweetheart]

None of the important things you mentioned are difficult on a vegan diet, so I’m confused as to what your point is.

You mentioned that there are associations between fish and lower weight gain, but that’s sort of irrelevant because I’m not making the claim that you can’t be healthy while eating animals (though many doctors do!)

I agree that all those things are important. So optimize for them and avoid eating animals.

[belorn]

None of the important things are difficult on a diet with animal parts. That is the point you are missing. The rules for a healthy diet only require it to be diversified and balanced so that a person get a healthy amount of calories, proteins, fats, minerals and vitamins. Health studies has not demonstrated any difference if a person get obese through too much bread, too much bacon, or too much sugar. Health studies has shown however that too much sugar has a very high risk for obesity since sugar can easily trigger over eating.

If we were to rank the world worst food product in terms of causing health problems for humans, sugarcane and sugar beet would list at the top. Animal products is in comparison fairly healthy. After sugar the next would likely be corn, as in high-fructose corn syrup. Much of the worlds insulin resistance and obesity is directly caused by those two vegetarian grown products!

If we look to historical diets that killed the largest number of people, outside the context of sugar, it would be diets where people only ate potatoes, rice or corn. Those diets has a risk of missing essential vitamins and during wars there were major epidemics from unvaried diet that focused on those vegetarian options. People who ate meat during those periods was generally more healthy as their diet was more varied and balanced.

If one want to optimize for health, optimize for a diversified and balanced diet that addresses risk associated with weight gain and insulin resistance. Cut out candy, beer, sugar drinks, potato chips, cereals, cheese puffs (corn coated with cheese powder), wine, and so on. All vegan food (except for the coat on the corn), all food that is terrible for health.

No discussion that uses statistics to prove a point should exclude the use of the same statistics. Vegan diet is associated with better health. A vegan diet is also associated with being female, high education, young, never married, normal and underweight BMI, and without any chronic conditions. How much is cause and effect is a bit more complex.

[sweetheart]

Again, I don’t see how any of this is relevant to the discussion. I’m not making the argument that non-vegan diets are unhealthy. My claim is that vegan diets can be perfectly healthy.

You seem to think that I’m claiming that veganism is optimal for health. I’m not.

[collegeburner]

Then why would I eat vegan? If I like the food less, and it's not optimal for health, and I am fine with animals suffering for my food, why?

[sweetheart]

As long as you don’t care about causing suffering for your pleasure, then you have no reason.

Why not just give a shit about the suffering of others though?…