[liamwestray]

You're young and just starting out, and its not easy coming out of CoViD and all the other stuff that's going on.

But your arguments don't match actual data, your situation is an outlier as of 2022.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

The Median or Average income in Portugal can afford an M1 Mac mini, and it is far less than 1 months wages. It also lasts for 5+ years.

[ChuckNorris89]

>It also lasts for 5+ years.

Yeah, good luck with that. Warranty in EU is 2 years. If it breaks after that and you have no Apple care, you can basically throw it in the bin, as it's not built to be cheaply repaired, with Apple's stance being either buy Apple care or buy a new one when it breaks. Perfect e-waste generator.

Plus, the default storage of 256 GB on the base model is pitifully low for what is supposed to be a desktop PC in 2022, so you need to spec it up, increasing the price. I had that amount of storage on my entry level $400 HP ProBook in 2012! There's no way I'm paying more money for less storage, after 10 years of progress.

[liamwestray]

I think you are really overestimating what is available to consumers for under $1000 Euro/USD.

This is what is typically available for under $800 Euro for desktops in Europe:

https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/computadores/...

256gb is pretty standard outside of gaming/workstation class desktops all over the world. The M1 is twice the CPU of everything in the sub $800 USD/Euro market. It's not even comparable. Spend $60/year on AppleCare+ and you get warranty well beyond 2 years in Spain/France/etc.

I haven't had a PC component break in less than 4-5 years on custom builds or OTS systems. My Macs have lasted 7-10 years of functional use.

I really don't get any of your arguments in this discussion. It's like you haven't actually use a Raspberry Pi in 3-4 years, and just want to knock Apple or ARM-based computers in general.

Between $100-$700 USD there are multiple cheap ARM-based computers available for any level of consumer use. You can use a reliable but cheap Raspberry Pi 400 if you are budget constrained. You will have to install DRM software, just like we did with DVD player software DRM in the 2000s to make Netflix work if you go that route.

If that doesn't work for the consumer they get a $700 Mac mini and it will have all out-of-the-box functionality a consumer needs, and outperform everything else they could find retail under $1000.

We haven't even talked about Chromebook's because there's dozens of ARM-based Chromebook's that have already overtaken cheap Intel PCs for these markets. This isn't even opinion over what platform is "better", the market has already spoken, and cheap ARM-based PCes as well as powerful ARM-based PCs are the norm.

[ChuckNorris89]

>I think you are really overestimating what is available to consumers for under $1000 Euro/USD. This is what is typically available for under $800 Euro for desktops in Europe: https://www.worten.pt/informatica-e-acessorios/computadores/...

I'm not overestimating, and I hope you're joking with that link, as I've bought a Lenovo laptop with an 8 core Ryzen 5800U and 2560x1600 display, 16GB RAM and 1TB NVME SSD for ~750 EUROS[1] last Christmas.

Please stop exaggerating by cherry picking overpriced and outdated PC hardware as being the norm in Europe, it's not. Great PC hardware can be found at outstanding value if you look around a bit.

>256gb is pretty standard outside of gaming/workstation class desktops all over the world.

It's not though. I see many cheap laptops under 800 Euro with more than that. Many consumer want more RAM and more storage since they want to do more than just browse the web.

>The M1 is twice the CPU of everything in the sub $800 USD/Euro market.

Ok, but CPU cycles are in infinite supply regardless of your choice of CPU performance, but your base spec 8GB RAM and 256 GB of storage that come with that 800 Euro price tag are fixed and could be a limiting factor for some. My example gives you double the RAM and four times the storage. Good luck editing your favorite video on that powerful M1 chip if you run out of HDD space for it because you only have 256GB, and that's before the OS, swap and apps ate a chunk of it.

My Macs have lasted 7-10 years of functional use.

Yeah, at 7 -10 year old, you're talking about the old Intel ones which where easily repairable as they were based on CotS hardware. How can you guarantee the same for the M1 SoC systems which are barely 1 year old and built using custom parts when you factor in Apple's anti-repair and anti-consumer stance?

[1] https://altex.ro/laptop-lenovo-yoga-slim-7-13acn5-amd-ryzen-...

[liamwestray]

That's not a desktop.

That was on sale at Christmas.

That's the same price and performance as an M1 MacBook Air (slightly less actually under ideal circumstances).

It gets 75% the battery life of the M1 MacBook Air.

That has the same 2 year warranty in the EU.

It is currently not on sale for that price and is above 800 Euros -- Mac minis and MacBook Airs also go on sale for the same price.

The Portuguese guy still can't afford it, apparently.

I literally gave a link to a major Portuguese retailer in the contextual country with dozens of PCs listed. You gave a sale item in another country with a spec you prefer that has no bearing on the average consumer.

You are cherry picking badly.

[ChuckNorris89]

>That's not a desktop.

Yes, it's a laptop, a slimmer portable desktop with a built in battery, keyboard, mouse and display, so even better value for money making an even stronger argument against your outdated and overpriced example.

>That was on sale at Christmas

No it wasn't on sale. Why are you twisting my words? I literally said I bought it last Christmas. Not everything you buy around Christmas is on sale. Look at the price now, it hasn't changed.

>That's the same price and performance as an M1 MacBook Air

It's not the same price, not even close. A base M1 CPU MacBook air specced up on their website to the same 16GB RAM and 1TB SSD is 1819 Euros, nearly 2.5x the price of the ~780 Euro Ryzen PC laptop I gave as an example.

>It is currently not on sale for that price and is above 800 Euros

What are you talking about? It literally is on sale and in stock at 3900 RON (~780 Euros) at the link I shared above.

>You gave a sale item in another country

I gave you a link from another EU country (EU tech pricing is similar within the block), since you claimed we don't have good options for PCs in Europe under 800 USD, you didn't specifically ask about Portugal. Read your own comment again please.

> with a spec you prefer that has no bearing on the average consumer.

No, I picked a spec that's closest to a base MacBook air in price, performance and form factor, but with double the RAM and four times the storage since some people need the extra memory and storage.

As this conversation is degrading and going nowhere productive, I will have to end my side of the conversation with you here and never reply to you again. Have a nice evening sir.

[pjmlp]

2 people and one chicken.

Statistics say each one eats half of it.

You are all over the place asserting to know more than people that actually know the country, based on random statistics.

[liamwestray]

I've lived in Spain and Italy as well as African and Middle Eastern Countries.

Your personal experience is not the average or median one.

[anthk]

I am from Spain. Our first home PC in 2003 with 256MB of RAM, a Geforce 2MX 200/400 and some Athlon XP cost us over 600 Euro. That was a crappy low-endish machine.

700 Euro for a Mac Mini it's a bargain.

[pjmlp]

So a guy with an agenda to sell Apple devices, otherwise you definitely would be aware of much people are actually able to afford them when not coming from upper class, or going into year long credits.