[MartinCron]

Get me from 0 to "Hello, World" as fast as you can. That's how you build the next PHP.

I understand why that is, but I can't help but think that it's optimizing for an edge case instead of the whole operation. I'm willing to invest a little bit longer to get to "Hello World" on day one if it means a lot less pain for every day to follow.

[InclinedPlane]

A useful criticism, but in this case I don't think it's optimizing for an edge case. There's a power law, or something close to it, when it comes to web developer skill. PHP is so dominant because it requires very little skill to get started, and very little skill to incrementally advance from there.

Other technologies can try to push on the "PHP problem" from above, and they can make a lot of progress, but they won't ever "win" because the inertia of PHP is coming from below. The only way to fully get rid of PHP is to beat it on its home turf, and that's firmly in the "Hello World" realm.

[MartinCron]

I guess it depends on what the goal is. I personally don't care if anything kills or supplants php. Different people can and should use different tools.

When trying to answer the question of "what tools should I, as a serious professional who is in this for the long-term, choose to work with right now?" it's really short-sighted to balance everything on how easy it is to get to "Hello World".

[eropple]

Most of the people using PHP almost certainly disagree with you. (Most of the people who have a clue about PHP, i.e. @fabpot and crew, may not disagree so strenuously, but I would suggest that they are the edge case.)

[MartinCron]

Of course the people who don't find php to be painful would disagree in my assessment that php is painful, kind of by definition. :)

Would you choose an operating system based on how easy it was to install, or how pleasant it was to use?

[eropple]

Sure, but you said that that was "optimizing for the edge case". Your edge case is PHP's base case, y'know?