[Nasrudith]

You cannot teach children via hypocrisy. At best you teach them "it is only okay when adults do it". Their job is to observe and they will detect such insincerity.

Really indoctrination is the wrong way to think about it period. Children are not to be your puppets but your successors who will always diverge from you.

I am also of the opinion that 99% of the time "the collective" is used merely an excuse to manufacture consent by claiming to speak for all or represent their interests. Communists are especially infamous for this "listen to the working class but only if they agree with me" sleight of hand! I find doing away with the "collective" bullcrap and think in terms of individuals and "mirrored standards and impacts". You don't want "bad people" detained indefinitely without a trial because then there is nothing stopping it from applying to you. It is damn simple but people tend to fail that mirror test all the time.

[mihaic]

Like the original comment, I feel like we're talking past one another. Of course I think we should strive to be what we teach our children.

Maybe you didn't like my use of "indoctrination", as you see it having a negative connotation. I meant to say that some thing need to be taught by repeated explanation and not by example alone -- mostly higher order concepts.