[Retric]

> demographic time bomb

China actually solved the excess men problem problem via ethnic cleansing.

Send men to reeducation camps while you import surplus men from another location to eliminate a minority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

It’s even more disturbing when you read up on the details, and consider the elderly aren’t yet a problem.

[ashwagary]

>China actually solved the excess men problem problem via ethnic cleansing.

How would the US behave if it had Wahhabist extremists near one of its borders? We've only seen how the US responded to some 6000 miles away in Afghanistan, most of them were brutally executed, not deradicalized or reeducated.

[kortilla]

“Here’s an unrelated thing an unrelated country did, therefore it’s okay.”

[makomk]

The US did not, in fact, brutally execute most of the population of Afghanistan. Remember, it's the Ugyur population as a whole that China has "deradicalized or reeducated" - not just active terrorists, not even religious extremists, but everyone.

[savingsPossible]

Are the Ugyurs comparable to Wahhabists?

Also, does the US uniformly target Wahhabists ?

[ashwagary]

The Uyghurs being targeted for deradicalization are Wahhabist (an offshoot of Salafism) that have a lot in common with, and in many cases directly trained by, Al Qaeda.

Granted, the net may be slightly larger than it needs to be due to China's high population density and the resulting fact that terroristic acts have a high human cost... but it's nowhere near the scale of our (US) net across Afghanistan, Syria, and Pakistan.

The vast majority of muslim communities in China have nothing to do with this kind of extremist ideology, don't commit acts of mass terror, and are not part of these deradicalization programs.

[seanmcdirmid]

The net worth a cast really broadly, and a Uighur doesn't have to be a Wahhabist to be labeled as needing re-education through labor, just expressing dissent is good enough. China has already done this with the rest of its population, even many Han were subject to these camps. The party has a lot of practice here and is only doing what it knows.

[ashwagary]

>many Han were subject to these camps.

Any source you can provide for this claim?

I've only seen evidence of these programs in certain Western parts of the country, mainly Xinjiang.

[seanmcdirmid]

I'm sure you are aware of that entire cultural revolution thing? Just read up on laogao and laojiao. They never really went away, they just moved the camps from east China to west.

[throwusawayus]

i agree that is disturbing but it is not what i was referring to, sorry I meant excess old people - age demographics - not excess men.

based on projections china's population peaked ~last year. it is a shrinking population from here, and while this will be a huge problem in most of the world (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30735230 discussed recently) but it is happening MUCH sooner in china, and at an unprecedented scale.

it is an existential threat and i am sure their government sees this, and it is scary to think what an "ends justify the means" way of thinking leads to with this problem

[Retric]

Yes, my point was that’s a looming problem but not currently an issue so we can only guess how their going to solve it. But, the options considered are anything up to including say romanticizing elderly suicide.

[jokethrowaway]

If we're lucky they'll pioneer growing babies entirely in vitro, no humans needed besides their DNA (which is branch of research I'd really like to see but morals in the West prevent that)

[mensetmanusman]

That is a good joke.

[droptablemain]

China is dealing with terrorism in a far more graceful way than the U.S. ever has. They're doing it with education and jobs.

[tsol]

Forcibly re-education and forced jobs(read: labor) is more accurate. Graceful isn't the right word. They're certainly more efficient, but their efforts are not without vast international condemnation. As much as I deplore the US response to terrorism, China's response isn't exactly a breath of fresh air

[bllguo]

what do you propose? because this all just sounds so naive. obviously the methods are horrible but there is no feel-good response to terrorism. can you really blame a nation for taking a zero-tolerance approach?

"international condemnation" is hardly a meaningful metric. It comes from 1. countries that have done and are doing far worse (slaughter, invasion, fomenting regime change), 2. countries that are sitting there wringing their hands as internal strife mounts over the increasing culture clash, and 3. countries that are lucky enough not to have these problems.

[ericmay]

> what do you propose?

I propose they just leave them alone.

[droptablemain]

Your solution to fundamentalist terrorism is to "just leave them alone?" My goodness, why has no one tried this brilliant strategy before?

[Retric]

Forced abortions are a little more than just education and jobs.

[FredPret]

Jobs in a concentration camp though