[robinjhuang]

When’s the last time you were back in China? That used to be the case, but increasingly less so. Especially after Trump’s trade war. Chinese people I know proudly buy Huawei and Nio cars. Even American products that Chinese people love like iPhones and Tesla are produced in China now…

Also 1. I don’t think people generally say that.

2. CDC made a huge mess of the pandemic (eg not stocking enough PPE). USPS is in big financial trouble.

3. This is huge topic but I’m inclined to say US messes up as often as it succeeds. Afghanistan will have 22 million people starving this year because of US sanctions. They promote democracy, but not human rights.

But overall I think you’re right to say the US government is one of the “more” efficient ones.

[vkou]

USPS is in big financial trouble because half the government is actively trying to kill it, by not allowing it to raise prices.

[nouveaux]

"USPS being in big financial trouble" should be considered a crazy idea. To me, it's like saying the "Senate" is in big financial trouble or the Federal Reserve is in big financial trouble. USPS should be a federal entity. They should be managed just like the State department.

What the USPS accomplishes is amazing. For a few dollars, you can send anyone a letter or a package to anywhere in the United States. The amount of productivity and the improved standard of living they provide incredible.

[jamie_ca]

Not to mention a level pension funding obligations that no other government agency has to suffer through.

[seibelj]

I always find that argument hilarious because the USPS was required to actually have conservative, healthy funding for their pensions - something no other state or federal agency does! And this is supposedly a bad thing! Just look at Chicago for an example of unfunded pension liabilities - a ticking time bomb.

[BobbyJo]

> They promote democracy, but not human rights.

A point of contention: Democracy is the surest way to safeguard human right long term in a nation. Historically speaking, there isn't even a second place when it comes to other forms of rule operating effectively on the necessary timescales.

Promoting democracy is promoting human rights the same way promoting exercise is promoting health and well-being.

[sudosysgen]

Democracy is far from the surest way to safeguard human rights. It's just a game of definitions that whenever a democracy commits atrocities, it retroactively stops being a democracy, even when the people are on board with it.

[BobbyJo]

Or maybe they do actually stop being democracies before the bad stuff happens? Care to share an example?

Literally all of the countries that have had continuous constitutions + liberal human rights (that is a long running government that hasn't violated its citizens rights) are democracies right now.

[sudosysgen]

Right, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You're defining it as "a long-running government that hasn't violated its citizens rights". By this definition, you could exclude the United States as one of its minorities wasn't able to vote until recently. You're begging the question.

[BobbyJo]

That was a bad definition because I was painting with broad strokes an hard lines.

Maybe this is a better way to phrase my statement: The countries that treat their constituents best are all democracies. Additionally, they tend to promote or retain rights better over time.

The US, and most of Europe are great examples. It's not perfect correlation, likewise people drop dead running marathons sometimes, but the correlation between democracy and human well-being is very strong.

[incompatible]

You'd have to define "democracy" in some meaningful way. Is Russia a democracy? Was Iraq under Saddam Hussein a democracy? Elections were held, he won about 100% of the vote. Is the US a democracy? The winner of the presidential elections doesn't always get the most votes, and is in practice obliged to be a member of one of only two parties.

[robinjhuang]

I think this might be true. But the USA is not simply a democracy. It’s a liberal hegemony, and that brings a whole set of other problems.

I believe that an objective look at US foreign policy shows that US always looks out for #1 (itself).

It helped overthrow an elected socialist leader in Chile in 1973. It made up reasons to invade Iraq. It defended Kuwait, a monarchy. It interferes in other countries all the time. When the dictator supports US interests, it leaves them be. When a democratically elected government resists them, they try to tear it down.

So I think what you mean is democracy is good for advancing human rights for CITIZENS of that country. The empirical evidence is not super strong for advancing human rights in general.