[sterlind]

I have progressive mobility loss. one time I went down the stairs to a bar, assuming there'd be an elevator back up - it was a big building. Bartender just told me to fuck off. I had to crawl up the stairs on my hands and knees with a friend behind me, holding my walker and ready to catch me if I fell.

if the bartender had been apologetic I wouldn't have felt so furious, but his utter disdain had my blood boiling.

[Zircom]

Is there a reason he should be apologizing? He's a bartender, the only thing he's responsible for is serving you drinks, he has absolutely no say in the accessibility accommodations the building chooses to put in. I don't really blame him for telling you to fuck off if you kept pestering/berating him after he told you there's no an elevator. What exactly did you expect him to do?

[sterlind]

I didn't pester or berate him. I asked him once. He didn't literally tell me to fuck off, he just said no and went back to cleaning up, clearly uninterested in helping me. It was a big, two-story building, like a complex, so I'm sure there was an elevator at least for employee use (nobody's dragging kegs down all those stairs.) He just made it very clear with his body language he wasn't interested in helping me, and that my question annoyed him.

But no, I didn't pester him, I just went to seethe in a corner and ask my friends for help.

[Zircom]

Okay, so maybe don't lie on the internet and go around telling people a bartender told you to fuck off when all he said was "No" and we won't have to make assumptions about what you had to have done to get a service worker to tell you "Fuck off".

Also -- if the bar is on the first floor why would they be taking kegs upstairs in the first place?

[5ESS]

If he let you into the employee-restricted part of the building to use the elevator he would probably get in trouble with management and lose his job. How is that a fair expectation?

[sterlind]

I've been escorted through restricted areas before for accessibility reasons. it's pretty normal. assuming more than one person is working in the bar, all he needed to do is get someone to accompany me. he could also have checked with his boss to make sure it's okay. also, complying with the ADA isn't optional. I could have sued them, and I bet management would have liked that even less.

also, how is it a reasonable expectation for me to crawl on my hands and knees up a flight of grimy stairs in public? why don't you try it sometime? it'd give you a taste of what it's like for me to live.

[exolymph]

> Is there a reason he should be apologizing?

Good manners? The business he represents is unable to accommodate a customer's needs. He should be nice about that. We have no indication that the bartender got berated.

[Zircom]

An apology from someone who has absolutely no ability to influence those decisions or policies isn't a sincere one, and is basically coerced under threat of getting in trouble when someone complains to their boss that they weren't "understanding enough".

Are you American by chance? I find that lots of Americans seem to want and even feel they're owed that kind of false sincerity/kindness from "low skill" workers they interact with.

Also I doubt it got to the point of someone telling OP to fuck off just for asking if there's an elevator, there has to be more to that story.

Also also there's no indication that the same business that owns the bar is the same business that owns the building, maybe they just rent a space on the bottom floor. So again, not the bartenders responsibility to apologize for something they have no control over, and possibly they're not even a representative of the same business that owns the building that chose not to include the accommodations.

In regards to accessibility accommodations, the only responsibility I can see to the bartender is telling people that there's not an elevator when they ask and he seems to have fulfilled that.

[ClumsyPilot]

'not the bartenders responsibility to apologize for something they have no control over, and possibly they're not even a representative of the same business that owns the building that chose not to include the accommodations.'

So if you have a serious situatuon, like a disabled person stuck in the basement, and the responce is just, leave them there? Like what has to happen for the barment to get off his ass and get the manager?

- 'Mate, you have a dead body at the bar!'

- 'Sorry pal, calling the police is not part of my job description'

To the customer, you represent the business. I see no reason why an able bodied man can't help, but if so, he should get someone who can. Whatever is the highest level manager or owner present has figure out the problem

[5ESS]

Nobody can give a disabled person a helping hand anymore because there have been too many instances of disabled people suing good samaritans into oblivion when they fall and hurt themselves. At the very least an employee could be written up by their employer for touching a patron and at the worst they could be sued civilaly and have their lives ruined.

[letitbeirie]

> Americans seem to want and even feel they're owed that kind of false sincerity/kindness from "low skill" workers they interact with

This is true to a sometimes weird degree, but...

> there's no indication that the same business that owns the bar is the same business that owns the building

A business is going to get judged on its physical space regardless of ownership or fairness.

There's a bar in Amsterdam with a rather unique tap collection and a remarkably annoying location, but every time I mentioned it to one of my friends there neither of those things would come up - it was always some variation of "oh isn't that the one where you have to walk up a sketchy spiral staircase to use the toilet?"

[Zircom]

> A business is going to get judged on its physical space regardless of ownership or fairness

The portion you quoted from my post doesn't necessarily represent my actual opinion, I was just pointing out his statement doesn't always hold true.

But I don't disagree with you, you can definitely judge a business for it's physical aspects, however I don't think your friends go up to the bartender demanding they fix the sketchy stairs, and then get upset to the point your "blood boils" when they don't personally apologize to you for them. There's a difference between judging and complaining with your friends privately, and hassling someone that happens to work there over stuff they have no control over.

[JohnTHaller]

If American, you're leaving out the factor that the bartender is likely paid below minimum wage by the establishment thanks to our tipped wages laws.

[exolymph]

That doesn't opt anyone out of common decency.

[JohnTHaller]

Parent post that I replied to was replying to grandparent which stated: "Good manners? The business he represents is unable to accommodate a customer's needs. He should be nice about that."

[JohnTHaller]

I think the disconnect may be if we're talking about an American bartender, they're likely getting paid below minimum wage (welcome to USA tipped wages) by the establishment. They have no power over the setup of the establishment and likely dislike both their boss and the customers. Source: I know a bunch of bartenders here in NYC.

[R0b0t1]

You can call EMS in such a situation if you can afford to wait. Fire and rescue usually will not bill you, and may find the proprietor at fault.