[exabrial]

All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.

The Strava/Garmin relationship is an interesting one: Strava has the social network, Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual users]. Garmin Connect is pretty cool in it's own right, but the Social features never really took off, which is where Strava plays and has a de-fact monopoly. Strava can't survive without Garmin, and Garmin benefits from Strava's content.

Garmin has pulled some 'power moves' in the past though with people it doesn't like... A competitor: Wahoo, who made cycling GPS computers, was cut off from inserting data into Garmin Connect and it left a lot of users out in the cold. Most serious cyclists will use Garmin devices, not an Apple watch, to track their rides as it seamlessly integrates with ANT+ sensors: power, cadence, wheel speed, heart rate, chainring and cog positions sensors.

Interesting to see Strava cut off Apple... I'm guessing it has to do something with preventing them from developing an alternative to the Strava social network.

[oneplane]

Strava isn't cut off from Apple. Instead, Garmin/Fitbit etc. would send their data to Strava, which then would forward it to Apple for them. The part where Strava takes the data from non-Strava apps is the one that got disabled (presumably by strava and not by garmin, but either could have).

[sulam]

Garmin couldn't directly disable this, once Strava has your data they can do with it whatever they want, licensing permitting. Which is a segue into - while I have no specific knowledge of this case, I do think it's somewhat tricky to take data from a third party and then hand it on to another third party. Presumably all of this was mediated by the user, and user's desires should be paramount here, but it's an example of why I believe OAuth is fairly broken and what we should all be giving permission to is capabilities, not access.

[usrusr]

Really surprising to see Strava actively avoiding the central switchboard role that would be such a powerful retention feature. I wouldn't be surprised to see it come back very soon, with some low level UX polisher receiving that talk about power and responsibility.

[rodgerd]

> All of the (Garmin, Strava, Apple, and Google [who is trying really hard but failing]) want a monopoly on your health data. Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.

I guess their huge data breach that they didn't notify and spent weeks fixing doesn't phase you, but it punted me out of their system.

[verisimi]

I'm still shocked and amazed that anyone would willingly share their health data with corporations. Why? What could go right? I say that acknowledging your point that this is possibly one of the better corporations out there.

> Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.

What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with?

I honestly can't even imagine the criteria whereby a corporation could be 'trusted' with personal information!

It boggles my mind, that people think about this - and plainly you do - but come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data!

[Riseed]

>> Garmin is the only one I actually trust currently, as they've shown 0 willingness to monetize your health information.

> What about the concern that the company is bought out in the future? Or that it may be sharing data already, with government agencies, etc? Or companies that it works with? > It boggles my mind, that people ... come to the judgement that its ok for corporations to have this personal data!

I'm not OP. I chose Garmin precisely because I don't think it's ok for corporations to have this personal data.

I chose Garmin because I can use it without needing to share any* of my data with a third party, including Garmin itself. I save the workout files to my computer via the same USB cable I use to charge the watch. There are various non-cloud apps I can use to view and analyze these workouts, if I actually cared to do so beyond the "fastest 5k" etc that the watch tracks automatically.

For this, it does not matter to me whether Garmin is bought out in the future because my watch works just fine as-is, and cannot update its OS without my explicit permission. I'm unsure what data Garmin would be capable of sharing because I have given it none.

* of course, speed/time/location data is obtained by pinging GPS/GLONASS satellites, but the watch can and does record my workouts quite accurately in non-GPS pedometer mode.

[exabrial]

Garmin was designed to work off grid and not need the internet lifeline to San Francisco or us-east. Can't say that about any of their competition.

[NoboruWataya]

And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps.

You could of course access the .FIT files directly on your device via USB, so maybe that's what you meant. Their hardware is pretty good for working off grid but you need other software to do anything with the data it creates unless you're connected to their servers.

[Riseed]

> And yet when they got hit by ransomware a while back their mobile and web apps were rendered useless. You could neither add new activities, nor view old activities, nor sync with other apps.

Isn't that to be expected, if you're using their cloud services? The point is that Garmin is (or was, I've had my watch for a few years) designed in such a way that the cloud services are not a requirement for full use of the device.

Yes, you can access the .FIT files directly via USB and then sync with other apps, such as TurtleSport, GPXsee, etc.

[NoboruWataya]

> Isn't that to be expected, if you're using their cloud services?

For the most part, yes, though I don't think it is particularly unreasonable to expect that you could view some of your recent activities in the app without having to phone home, given how small the .FIT files tend to be.

Syncing with other apps is also something I would expect could be done without phoning home, assuming the other app is capable of parsing your .FIT file directly (which Strava is). In that case all the app needs to do is fetch the .FIT over Bluetooth and pass to the third party app using whatever phone API.

[mulmen]

I prefer the corporations not have the data at all. The problem is Apple is simultaneously the best and also pretty bad at stewarding such an ecosystem. In theory all my actual health data would live on a device I own, encrypted, and accessible only by the apps I approve. In reality Apple can't or won't provide those mechanisms. Every other corporation wants to collect and sell my data.

Apple had a chance to make on-premise data storage a thing. They had AirPort, which combined with a Mac Mini could provide full iCloud functionality from the home. iCloud itself could have simply been an encrypted offsite backup, like Tarsnap with no options.

Instead Apple built a system that still puts clear user data within their reach.

[frogblast]

What you wish for is exactly what HealthKit is. All app access is gated by ACLs that require per-app and per-record-type user approval, and always encrypted when transmitted off of your device. This is a quote from the Apple Health Privacy Policy:

> When your device is locked with a passcode, Touch ID, or Face ID, all of your health and fitness data in the Health app — other than your Medical ID — is encrypted and inaccessible by default. Additionally, if you are using iOS 12 or later and turn on two-factor authentication, Apple will not be able to read your health and activity data synced to iCloud.

The two factor authentication is the mechanism for key distribution such that HealthKit data can be synced and migrated between your own devices, without being decryptable by apple.

[mulmen]

Sure except Apple owns my device. So it’s all moot.

[InCityDreams]

As long as they don't reveal my 'hidden zone', they're welcome to the lot, and I freely give it whilst severely understanding the 'risks'. If my W/kg or bpm can be monetized, go for it. Hit me with one single ad, though, and it's goodnight Vienna.

[cheeze]

Many people don't care about health data being monetized. I don't personally care if Strava sells my heart rate data or where I rode my bike today. I'm fine with trading them that data for their heat map, which is super useful in planning rides.

To me, it comes down to me being fine with this data being considered public. If others don't want to share it, that's totally fine and I understand their perspective. For me though? I couldn't care less.

Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads.

[asdfadfas]

> Congrats, you sold some data that says I'm fat, out of shape, and don't like riding my bike on busy roads.

I can only imagine anyone buying the data does so only if they believe they can make more using the data. I don't think I know of anyone doing this now (not sure if there is regulation preventing this), but its not hard to imagine a eventuality where your health data/work out information can be used by your health insurance provider.

Imagine a scenario, your bmi is higher than normal and is trending higher in the past few months, so that increases your risk for x and hence your insurance premiums go up. Would you care then?

[stevenhubertron]

Might be just the motivation needed. to get a few more miles in on every ride.

[Gigachad]

Because a log of my cycling is the least important data to me and the value it provides is immense.

[js2]

> Garmin has the best devices [for serious Athletes, not casual users].

I’m a happy Garmin user but I know a lot of distance runners that have switched to Coros. They love the battery life w/o sacrificing GPS accuracy.