[marcos100]

Whenever you interview at another company you're evaluating what is your worth in the market, instead of just guessing. It's always good, even if you don't intend to take the offer.

If you show it to your boss, it means you intend to leave if he does not match it or offer some other perks. It's not forcing anything, it's negotiating.

[syshum]

No, that will be viewed as an ultimatum not negotiation.

If I am at the point where I am interviewing for a new position I am gone. There is no counter offer, no proposal to match, nothing like that. If they try to match I view that as an insult because before even looking for a new position I would have came to my boss several times expression displeasure with the current level of compensation, if they only respect me enough to pay me what I am worth after I threaten to leave then it is not a place I want to work at anyway

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

I really think it varies greatly depending on your current relationship with you leadership, the company practices and so on.

I think it may be healthier to see it as a game of sorts. Everyone knows the dance. No one really gets upsets ( and if they do, it is either for show or they just didn't see enough yet ).

My buddy from another group just left ( following a mass exodus from that team ). The company begrudgingly offered a match only to discover that the other company offered even more as a result and refused to match it again. The absolute additional match amount at that point was maybe $5k -- small amount given what they are now forced to spend on recruiting, training and so on, but they opted to not do it despite managers' protestations.

It is not a small company. They just posted near record profits. Executives just don't get the current market. Or they don't want to.

[syshum]

>>I think it may be healthier to see it as a game of sorts.

I am not sure why "playing games" would ever be viewed as the "healthier option"

healthier to what exactly, if you have to "play games" then it seems that would be very definition of unhealthily.

I am always up front and honest with my leadership, I dont "play games", they know exactly what my target salary is for 1, 3 and 5year pictures, what my target responsibilities are, what I will not do, etc. If they can meet them great, if not it is on me to seek out an employer that can.

in the reverse I want my leadership to direct and honest with me on what I need to do to improve, or what comprises I need to make to get my target, sometime that is some kind of educational plan, or taking on responsibilities I may not exactly want, or some other factor.

I do not want to treat my employment nor my income as "a game of sorts"

[A4ET8a8uTh0]

I agree with you in an abstract, but in reality I can only point to the current state of affairs.

Things are what they are. I am not going to quit just to send a message regardless of how briefly satisfying it may feel. Even 'being honest' is a carefully calculated stance ( and I have employed it as well ) that is intended to show that when you say you don't bluff, people should listen.

[usrusr]

And it works out quite similar in the other direction: an employee retained by giving in to the ultimatum will likely pick up another offer a few months later, this time without an ultimatum or with the ultimatum rejected. And it all happens with all the engineer's peers avidly watching, inspiring them to set out for more as well.

Much better to just wish them luck at their new job, even if the replacement hire will be more expensive than giving in to the ultimatum (not excluding employees from wage market developments before they are tempted to try ultimatums might be even better)

[gedy]

I think this is a cynical take, and hear it a lot from management-types.

If I go through the trouble to share an offer with a willingness to stay, how exactly is that an ultimatum? Seems there is no avenue for an employee to try and stay except silently turn down offer and eat lower pay?

[usrusr]

Go, let them know why you leave, allow them to learn that trying to pay under market can have consequences. Staying would deny them that learning experience.

[mooreds]

> If you show it to your boss, it means you intend to leave if he does not match it or offer some other perks. It's not forcing anything, it's negotiating.

How successful is this "negotiation" typically? I've not heard great things about taking counteroffers.

[mywittyname]

> How successful is this "negotiation" typically? I've not heard great things about taking counteroffers.

Are these "not great things" first-hand accounts?

I've done it and it was great. I've had colleagues who've done it with success. And I've hand manager who recommend it when I wasn't happy with my increase.

I feel like this kind of attitude is really damaging to peoples' careers and holds back wages. I have a friend who adores their job but refuses to accept a counter offer because they are afraid of being fired.

[mooreds]

> Are these "not great things" first-hand accounts?

Nope, second hand accounts, mostly on slacks where I don't know the people talking. This is really useful to me, and I appreciate you sharing your first (and second) hand accounts.

[therealdrag0]

> I've not heard

I've seen these discussions a million times, and this is nearly always brought up in a 2nd/3rd hand way. I'm not criticizing you. But I think this is a big hole in our collective knowledge about effective strategy. e.g., how much truth is behind the meme?

I suspect it varies a lot based on individual factors both in the eng and the manger and the company. And I think you're more likely to just not get a counter offer, than to get one and things turn sour.

[honkdaddy]

In theory this makes sense, but of all the Big N engineers I know who’ve tried this, they’ve never been given an attractive enough offer that they would stay.