[SideburnsOfDoom]

> These facts aren't in dispute, so there is nothing to call me out on

Yes, very nice.

however as stated before https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30665507 Your argument is at best semantic; and entirely misleading, in a propagandistic way. I call you out on that, and I am not the first

> Supported by the US

Citation needed. You called it "CIA-backed" earlier, which is a worse smear. You can deny the Ukrainian people agency over their own fate then, as a precursor to denying it to them now.

The facts on the ground say otherwise. Ukraine is not behaving as if they have an "illegitimate regime". Implying otherwise - and doing so repeatedly - is behaviour that shows that you have an agenda.

> I also pointed out that the idea of pushing Ukraine and/or Georgia towards NATO has been known for the last 25 years to be a guaranteed precursor to war with Russia.

"look what you made me do" is again, the logic of an abuser.

[yucky]

>Citation needed. You called it "CIA-backed" earlier, which is a worse smear.

This tells me you didn't read the citations I provided.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

Your citations provided upthread say nothing of the sort. This is pretty misleading stuff.

Regarding "ok to install a pro-US government in Ukraine" is a complete mischaracterisation; the question is whether it's OK for a nation to determine their own fate or not. Regardless of which power they choose to be "pro". I'm of the opinion that it is vital; you're clearly against that self-determination, calling it a "coup", repeatedly, for tendentious reasons.

[yucky]

>"ok to install a pro-US government in Ukraine" is a complete mischaracterisation

So you didn't listen to the leaked phone call with Victoria Nuland handpicking who they wanted to take power? https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

[SideburnsOfDoom]

Seems like this took place after the transfer of power. You can't cause a transfer of power after it happens. But I don't think you're that stupid,. you're just trying to fool people with misleading links.

Government behaving badly? isn't the answer - according to you - to wait until the next election and change leaders (1)? "That is how democracy works."

Oh wait, Ukraine did that in 2019 when they elected Zelensky by a wide margin (2). Job done. right? Problem solved, no need to bring it up again.

All this irrelevant frothing about CIA, US is designed to misdirect away from Ukraine's self-determination. Who they align with or not is their choice. In 2014, 2019 or any other year.

1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30632670

2) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48007487

[yucky]

>Seems like this took place after the transfer of power.

The "Revolution of Dignity" was February 18-23rd 2014.

This BBC article[1] featuring the leaked transcript is from February 7th 2014, which is 2 weeks earlier.

So no, that is 100% incorrect. Does that change your view?

[1]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957

[SideburnsOfDoom]

Zelensky was elected in 2019, five years later, does that change yours? Are you even going to talk about that at all?

> So no, that is 100% incorrect.

Funny that Wikipedia lists a lot of things happening in December and January too. "100% wrong" is misleading as always. Looks like the Ukrainian people took the initiative on this one.