[FpUser]

>"Please do it on my native country."

And what would you say if your family gets blown to bits in the process? They already "saved" for example Iraq with hundreds of thousands dead, unknown amount of maimed / starved / displaced / otherwise ruined and with not much different state of affairs for the average folk in the end. You think that barely surviving farmer gives a shit whether they allowed to scream "our president is a dick" on central square?

[krzyk]

Cool, have you ever lived under despotic regime?

It is nice to say that if you live in a country where you have freedom.

[FpUser]

I was born in USSR and lived and worked there until I've moved to Canada in 1992. While I and many others hated various restrictions on freedoms I know from the experience that the majority of the population was mostly concerned about living standard.

[cute_boi]

I have lived under autocracy as well as democracy. There is no difference. I realized democracy is not black magic that solves all the problems. Many people think autocracy just converted to corrupt bureaucracy. And, the corruption has increased and spread more rapidly.

Democracy is better due to freedom. But, there is no such big influence on poor man's life, unless there is a radical change like we see in South Korea.

[krzyk]

OK.

I have lived also under a somehow despotic regime (a "light" version, Eastern Europe) and as a child it was quite strange for me that adults said differerent things in "kitchen" and in the open.

Also fun fact, each citizen was allowed to buy only limited amount of certain "things". E.g. one coffee per person (I was standing in a queue as a child to have one more coffee bag for my family) - meat was given not for money but for a piece of paper (rest of the meat was sold/gifted to our big brother Russia).

In democracy I can complaint about prices of food (which I can buy for money, not some allowance) and can complain about current rulers. I can complain about Russia - this was not allowed earlier.

And I can learn English in school (if would be born a year earlier the only option was Russian).

In my country there was a radical change in poor man's life when switching to democracy. (of course there were complainers - basically those that were subsidies by the previous regime, mostly farmers I presume)

[deepsun]

My family can get jailed for life, and die in the process.

That's not a rhetorical question, I'm dead serious. They have way more chances to stay well and alive during a war, than during the occupation.

[laurent92]

Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death. Ukrainians do.

[dragonwriter]

> Almost everyone would choose freedom over anything else, even if it costs their death.

The history of tyrannical governments suggests that not “almost everyone” would choose that. Franklin's famous quote wouldn't be noteworthy if trading essential liberty for even temporary safety wasn't the common choice of most people through most of history.

[cute_boi]

This is a false statement. People value quality life and happy life. If your statement was true, there would be no autocracy.

Ukrainians do because they got support from the EU, as well as the US. If they stopped supporting, you know .... And, it is good that the EU and US are supporting Ukrainians. And, I hope the EU will support other countries, that are victims of the US.

[nine_k]

Ukrainians protested heavily and violently when there was fraud during presidential elections, and they effectively deposited the president who usurped the chair while not being legally elected.

The protests were large, insistent, and sometimes life-threatening for the participants. There was no major support from outside, except moral support.

When people trust that they are right, and, importantly, a large number of other people around them share the same commitment, they keep on fighting.

If Russia ever occupies large parts of Ukraine, they'll face fierce guerilla warfare. Much like the Germans faced during WWII on the same territory, much like the Soviets faced on westernmost parts of it after WWII. Traditions are there.

[cute_boi]

We know Russia and Oligarch are fraud. But, don't undermine the fact that Ukraine is one of the corrupt country in Europe. So, I highly doubt if your first statement is correct. If you look on history, US has constantly meddled with anther's country affair in name of "democracy" and liberalism". However, I don't know how much US has influenced in Ukraine that makes Putin anxious.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/oct/03/revealed-anti-o...

Its a premature thinking that Ukraine citizen will start guerilla warfare? Can they live in cave like Taliban? Can they sacrifice life? There are many questions that needs to be answered.

Russia will probably install some Yes-man, who is obsequious to Putin. I don't think they intend to take whole Ukraine.

[dmosley]

*History has entered the chat

I am officially asking for source material to back your "almost everyone" assertion.