[nkrisc]

> They are seeing the disparity between how NATO invaded Libya and none of the NATO countries faced any sanctions, while Russia invades Ukraine and faces massive sanctions. Libya hadn't threatened any NATO country nor had it invaded any non-NATO country. It was going through an internal civil war. Yet it was leveled and Gaddafi was dethroned, and lynched in public. So anyone who says NATO is a defensive alliance is just bullshitting.

I'm not going to refute this, because I believe you're essentially correct.

But let's not pretend that it's a direct comparison. Gaddafi was a brutal dictator whose regime tortured, raped, and murdered Libyans with impunity. He, his sons, and his close circle were sadistic psychopaths. He also directly supported, sponsored, and tolerated terrorism which reached out beyond his own borders and killed civilians from other countries. The Gaddafi regime was a menace not only to Libyans but to rest of the world as well. I still believe removing him from power was a net benefit to the world. And it was Libyans who lynched him (not surprising given what he had done to them), not NATO forces.

I think it's fair to draw parallels in the abstract between these two scenarios, but they are not the same.

[melony]

International relations does not differentiate between Ukraine and Libya in terms of sovereignty. To deny one is to deny the other as both are internationally recognized states.

[libertine]

Who denied Libya sovereignty?

Maybe I'm missing some information, but I don't recall any NATO member ever stating that Libya shouldn't exist, or anything like that.

[nkrisc]

There are only the rules we choose.

I'm not saying they are different according to the conventions of international relations. I'm saying that ethically speaking, I think they are different.

[postingawayonhn]

The big difference is that Ukraine is a democracy run by the people. Gaddafi's Libya was a dictatorship.

[throwaway_434]

I am not defending Gaddafi. He was a brutal dictator. No doubt about it. I am just exposing hypocrisy of the "Free World" which I am a part of as well. I am just saying that there was already a Civil War being waged within Libya to oust Gaddafi. He would have been ousted anyways by the people. There was no need to do an invasion, by breaking all rules.

Ultimately, in the International Arena, Countries represent themselves. It doesn't matter if they are Dictatorships, Theocracies, Democracies etc. The nature of a Country is not important at all. All Countries adhere to a set of International Standards/Conventions/Charters. The "Free-World" wants to differentiate itself from the rest by "claiming" that it follows the rules. Yet, the facts state otherwise. 84 countries were invaded by the "Free-World". 84 out of 193 countries. USA has fought with 43% of the World. This is just too many countries to even consider it as an exception.

You can give a lot of justifications for why each invasion took place (you can even justify invading the 11th smallest country in the World: Grenada) but then you shouldn't frown when Putin gives his justifications too. I am just showing the mirror to the "Free-World" and hoping it starts to act on TRULY differentiating itself from the Totalitarian dictatorships. To show that it TRULY follows the rules. Just saying it "follows the rules" won't cut it anymore in this day and age.

[nkrisc]

You're absolutely correct it is hypocritical. I can't in good faith argue it isn't. But I still think opposing Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the right thing to do. I'll take hypocrisy over doing nothing in this case.

[MrRiddle]

One might say the same for Ukraine. Nazi Azov Battalion was the main attacker of Donbas, Nazi structures are definitely embedded into Ukrainian state.

It’s just a prism you look through.

Was Pinochet a good guy? Was attack on Cuba justified? Vietnam, Korea etc? They’re always good vs bad? Life is not Holywood.

[nkrisc]

> One might say the same for Ukraine. Nazi Azov Battalion was the main attacker of Donbas, Nazi structures are definitely embedded into Ukrainian state.

One might say the same. Do you? I don't.