[shafyy]

I didn't say we need to ask people to change their behavior. I know that that's futile. My point is that great alternatives already exist, that don't demand a behavior change. For example, renewable energies and plant-based meats (Impossible and others).

[coldpie]

You did, though, it's right in your comment: "excuse to not change their behavior today."

And no, plant-based meat isn't there yet. It's something I often choose myself for environmental reasons, but it's still strictly worse than real beef. And non-ground meat substitutes aren't even in the ballpark.

[shafyy]

I'd bet you a lot of money that most people can't make out an Impossible burger vs. a beef burger in a blind taste. Tasting has to do a lot with psychology (see Pepsi vs. Coke blind tastes), and that's why people think plant-based meat sucks (there's a big variance in quality, agreed). Lab-grown meat won't change this fact.

[coldpie]

We're at the point of disagreeing over opinion, but I'm pretty confident you'd lose that bet :) I say this as someone who usually orders the Impossible option. It is the first plant-based meat I've had that actually crosses the threshold into "good enough," but it's still noticeably inferior to a good beef burger. Most plant-based meats genuinely do suck, I prefer just forgoing those and doing a mostly-vegetarian diet, personally.

I think lab-grown meat has a much better chance than plant-based meats of satisfying the "want" of meat, while drastically lowering the environmental effects of eating meat. And again, I think pursuing both options is the best choice. I eat less meat thanks to Impossible, and I hope they continue to succeed.

[Nathanael_M]

These both demand behaviour changes. Using renewable energy is a behaviour change (although no one's running their own oil refinery in their backyard) even if it's at a different tier and eating plant based meats is CERTAINLY a behaviour change. I think asking everyone to start eating mediocre faux-ground-beef is a pretty big behaviour change.

[shafyy]

Following that logic, eating lab-grown meat will is also a behavior change. So, my point still stands.

[Nathanael_M]

I didn't say it wasn't a behaviour change. This was a response to your statement that your solutions didn't demand behaviour changes, when they both demand significant behaviour changes.

My argument, which I have yet to state in this dialogue, is that lab grown meat offers the opportunity to provide an experience very similar to eating "real" meat at a lower cost to the consumer, thus making it a viable alternative in ways that today's current plant based meat substitutes aren't.

I am definitely open to plant based meat substitutes taking that role, but in their current form that would still require a large behaviour change by a large percentage of the population.

Now renewable energy is different discussion and that requires a much smaller number of people to make (albeit much larger) behaviour changes.

[shafyy]

Fair enough. But the reality is that lab grown meat doesn't exist, so we are not certain how it will taste. Plant-based meats have come a long way in the past 5 years. Let's see where they are in another 5 years, at which point lab grown meat still won't exist at a scale and price point that's available to the mainstream consumer.

I don't have anything against people pursuing lab grown meat research. I'm just a bit pissed that "futuristic" solutions get so much more mainstream media attention than practical solutions that already have an impact today.

[Nathanael_M]

Fair points. I like that we have lots of different smart people tackling the problem from different angles, though. I’m optimistic about technology here because I don’t think people will trade concrete quality of life now for abstract quality of life in the future.

What’s your favourite plant based meat? I’ll try it next time I go get groceries.

[shafyy]

Impossible is by far the best (I moved back to Europe couple of years ago and sadly they don't sell it here yet). I also heard their new nuggets are great, but haven't tried them yet.

Beyond Meat is also good, but I think Impossible is another ballgame.

Tofurkey also makes great cold cuts (haven't tried their bugers yet).

And then there are a bunch of smaller brands making great products, too. But it's a bit of a hit and miss with them, so you need to try a bunch to find something you like.