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by BukhariH 1562 days ago
Since, Wise & Revolut have been mentioned quite a bit and I'm an ex-Revolut & ex-Wise engineer where I built a lot of the FX infrastructure so I'll throw in my 2c.

My assumption of what you & Neeraj are doing based on your backgrounds: You've decided to build a smart order router for retail FX hence the slow transfers because you need to wait for the spot order to settle T+2.

Story at Wise Funnily enough Wise started in the early days with a fixed fee of £1!

Since all Wise did was match orders between customers so no money was actually moving borders hence no need for conversion or transfer fees etc.

But that fixed fee model was quickly scrapped when Wise started making the market between customers and improving the product experience by introducing rate locks (hedging costs), instant transfers (buffer costs) and actually started considering all the other cogs that go into making an international FX payment.

But there's one significant cost of high value transfers that's been a struggle for both Wise & Revolut to bring down even at scale:

The transaction monitoring, AML & support costs of high value transfers - a single high value transfer can easily cost £3 - £150 for all the due diligence needed to get it done.

If you're going to keep the product fixed fee - this is where you'll need to focus in terms of innovation.

The Story at Revolut Revolut has an Unlimited Zero Mark up FX with a single free SWIFT transfer (every additional international transfer is capped at £5) on the £6.99 premium plan.

But international payments is relatively a recent addition. The vast majority of the time when people are sending money to each other on Revolut, it's a Revolut-to-Revolut or Revolut to local own bank account payment.

Revolut's core strategy is to be the everywhere wallet so that when you're sending money to your family member in Romania from the UK - you just do it as a Revolut to Revolut payment which is bit different to the gap you're trying to fill.

And, there's very little interest at Rev to deal with high value transfers because the AML, transaction monitoring and support costs are too prohibitive when transfers between users are free or capped at £5 for SWIFT payments.

Is there a market for this product? A resounding YES.

This is something we realised at Wise - we weren't as competitive as we liked to be on high value transfers and even though they committed resources to improving this - in typical Wise fashion the progress is very slow.

Now I'm not convinced you'll stick at the £3 mark for long but there's definitely a large untapped market here.

I'm confident that you & Neeraj have what it takes to win in this market & will be rooting for you from the outside!

P.S. The app doesn't seem to be available in the UK app store?

1 comments

Thanks for sharing your story and for the thoughtful feedback BukhariH! We thought a lot about the current players and offerings in the space, and came to similar conclusions about some of the pitfalls.

That being said, we have made two observations that we are looking to explore by launching Atlantic Money:

1. By deliberately going the super-app route, and trying to be something for everyone, super apps are crappy user experiences, and they aren't a very strong business (outside of south-east Asia).

We are looking to be a focused product, and are committing to not building a bunch of additional features into our app over time that customers probably don't want and are likely going to make the experience adversarial.

2. Super apps are not targeted.

We believe that costs can pile up if you don't have a target customer. Our thesis is that we want to be a very good option for customers moving larger sums of money, and we've explicitly focused on that segment in terms of corridors, and our fixed pricing.

We'll see how it goes with the launch, but would welcome any feedback - either here, or feel free to reach out directly.

How do you plan to become profitable?

£3 flat sounds basically impossible become profitable on. Especially considering you're going for higher volume customers. Yes you have chosen a segment with low overheads (bank to bank transfers), but you will still have the burden of costs that scale very poorly with the volume of £ moved and number of customers served (e.g. CS, AML, KYC etc). Usually revenue (and some costs) that scales with volume is the route to profitability here, but you've explicitly forgone it!

So, in my opinion, your prices will have to rise substantially (most likely) or you will do something akin to what Robinhood did with PFOF and make the customer the product, which is to say, exploit them without them knowing. Sorry if this sounds harsh but your setup currently falls into the category of things that sound too good to be true, would love to hear how you plan to overcome it.

Having said all this I wish you the best of luck, hope to be proven wrong!

(edit: to clarify, i'm considering a business model without significant cross subsidisation - in which case this transfer product would still be loss making in isolation)