[TillE]

It's difficult to overstate just how big of a turning point this is for the world, especially Europe, because I can't see how Russia returns to anything like normal relations in the foreseeable future. There's no way they leave Ukraine entirely, and therefore the sanctions will remain indefinitely.

Europe is still heavily reliant on Russian oil and gas, but this is clearly untenable. If and when that business dries up, they will be truly isolated from the west.

[erichocean]

> they will be truly isolated from the west

Or they will simply use China as a middleman for whatever products they want from the West (that China doesn't already make).

It's extremely difficult to actually harm Russia in the long term thanks to China.

[vharuck]

I think you're half right: China will allow Russia to circumvent trade sanctions, like they do with North Korea. But, like any irreplaceable middleman, China will extract as much as they can from Russia in the process. China loses a powerful ally, gains a loyal vassal state, and Russia loses its political power. All in all, not a terrible outcome for the West.

[jjeaff]

I don't think China will be quick to help them evade sanctions. There will certainly be some of that, but Chinese banks are already cutting ties with Russian businesses for fear of secondary sanctions.

[mateo1]

Yeah, it was a massive, massive disaster. The expenses associated with the new (hopefully) cold war will make europe weak and irrelevant on the global stage. That includes Russia. And what was this all for?